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Strange white line


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#1 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 02:27 AM

Hi,

I'm shooting a show for the moment, a 10 part drama serie called Matrioshki 2.
In the last daylies, the TC company let me know there is a white line in the picture.
The line is fine and sharp, beginning at the right side of the picture and going to the left side, but stops in the middle in a sort of a fade out. The line is horizontal and has a curved shape. It's a bit translucide.
It's on 1 frame every 3 seconds.

http://photo-didier....e-10037916.html

I've an idea but what do you think??

Thanks for your help.

Didier Schokkaert
Focus puller
Belgium
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#2 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 05:00 AM

Some kind of light leak maybe?
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#3 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 05:12 AM

Some kind of light leak maybe?



Yes but then why every 3 seconds? And where is the leak, impossible in the magazine, it would'nt be sharp and it should look like a red/orange flash on every picture.
Intern reflection maybe? But then again, why every 3 seconds and not all the time?

By the way, we are shooting with a SR3 advanced.
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#4 Michael Nash

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 06:11 AM

The periodic interval suggests something to do with the film movement, either in the camera or in the telecine. I would expect the interval starts shorter gets longer as the footage progresses, as the roll of film gets physically larger on the mag or on the reel.

It almost looks like a physical crease in the film. Was the roll pinched in any way? Can you inspect it for physical damage?
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#5 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 06:40 AM

The periodic interval suggests something to do with the film movement, either in the camera or in the telecine. I would expect the interval starts shorter gets longer as the footage progresses, as the roll of film gets physically larger on the mag or on the reel.

It almost looks like a physical crease in the film. Was the roll pinched in any way? Can you inspect it for physical damage?


Yes, the interval is a big clue. Since the the film movement remains the same over the length of the roll, everything was shot at 25fps, the interval can't be longer or shorter as the roll increases in size (exposed size) or decrease in size (unexposed size). If it's something happening in the gate, the movement has always the same speed at that point.

I'm wondering if it's something that could happend at the lab, maybe when they are rewinding the neg roll, the reel where the neg is staying on can maybe touch the neg at some point. If the interval is changing, maybe it could explain that possibility.

I can check the neg on monday evening and look for a scratch in the neg or a black line in the neg. The first thing I need to know is: is it an exposure problem (intern reflection for example) or a physical problem (scratch on the neg).

Thanks

Didier Schokkaert
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#6 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

I think there is a bit of dirt embedded in a roller in the processing machine. The roller would be about 177mm in diameter.
I can only think of the drying cabinet having rollers of this size.

For your information only, we are not involved in this production.
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#7 Rob Featherstone

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 10:17 AM

Hello:

I had a similar issue on a feature where I was focus puller.

One day the dailies came back and they had little white arcs that came across frame
in a rythmic pattern.

It was eventually determined that the rollers in the lab were dirty.

Something on the camera end is usually black on the print because the film ends up being not exposed.

Well we had to do an insurance claim and a reshoot.

Maybe in this digital age you can paint it out.

-Rob Featherstone
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#8 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 01:16 PM

Hello:

I had a similar issue on a feature where I was focus puller.

One day the dailies came back and they had little white arcs that came across frame
in a rythmic pattern.

It was eventually determined that the rollers in the lab were dirty.

Something on the camera end is usually black on the print because the film ends up being not exposed.

Well we had to do an insurance claim and a reshoot.

Maybe in this digital age you can paint it out.

-Rob Featherstone


Thanks (dank u Dirk), I appreciate your help. I'll give more news on monday evening when I had a glance at the neg.

Didier Schokkaert
Focus puller
Belgium
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#9 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 03:31 PM

it should be very easy to paint out using pîxels from the neighboring frames.
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#10 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 03:33 PM

Hello to all of you,

I looked this evening to the daylies where we have that strange problem.
It appears approximately 3 to 4 minutes before the end of a lab roll. But not on every lab roll.
The lines are on one frame, sometimes long, sometimes short, but always coming from the right side of the picture and fading away to the left.
The interval between two lines is sometimes 1 second, sometimes, about 15 frames, sometimes shorter, sometimes longer, so it's difficult to give it a rythmic pattern.

Last week I had to change the camera, and I still have the problem with the new camera( new body, new magazines, same stock, same lenses)
So obviously, it's not the camera.
Lab or maybe x-rays?

Any ideas?

Thanks

Didier Schokkaert
Focus-puller
Belgium
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#11 Larry Nielsen

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 06:58 AM

These subtle arcs crack me up, and I'll tell you exactly what they are, and how they come about. Yes this in fact sounds like a lab problem, and what they are is arcs of static electricity. The head of the roll is usually the the tail of the roll as it goes through the bath. we don't know how many rolls go through a bath when your roll comes out. the bath may get dirty from previous rolls of neg, and yes static electricity can happen as your neg is being rolled out for the bath
I hope this helps, Larry.
PS not every lab is bad, and I don't want to sound like I'm putting blame on every lab out there, but I have experienced this in the past only to find out is was static electricity crated in the lab process.
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#12 Didier Schokkaert

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 10:18 AM

These subtle arcs crack me up, and I'll tell you exactly what they are, and how they come about. Yes this in fact sounds like a lab problem, and what they are is arcs of static electricity. The head of the roll is usually the the tail of the roll as it goes through the bath. we don't know how many rolls go through a bath when your roll comes out. the bath may get dirty from previous rolls of neg, and yes static electricity can happen as your neg is being rolled out for the bath
I hope this helps, Larry.
PS not every lab is bad, and I don't want to sound like I'm putting blame on every lab out there, but I have experienced this in the past only to find out is was static electricity crated in the lab process.


Yes that is also my conclusion, static electricity. We'll send a roll back to the lab so that they can check it.
I'm not saying that this lab is a bad one, "poop happens" you know.

Thanks

Didier
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#13 Charlie Peich

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 10:36 AM

Didier,
Send a few feet of the effected film to Kodak (that is if you are using Kodak stock) and have them run an analysis of the damage. Your Kodak rep can give you the details.
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