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HVX200 - commercial


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#1 Bill Totolo

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 11:28 PM

HVX200, redrock, nikons (85mm f2.0), cine v

Posted Image

my 1st national ad (sorry for re-editing).
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#2 Marc Levy

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:58 AM

Looks good Bill! Any video?
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#3 Bill Totolo

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 08:00 AM

Looks good Bill! Any video?

Thank you.

The footage belongs to the client. I had a few scenes left on my P2 card so I grabbed a TIFF before I re-formatted the card.

Should roll out 1st quarter '08.
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#4 kpv rajkumar

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 09:09 PM

HVX200, redrock, nikons (85mm f2.0), cine v

Posted Image

my 1st national ad (sorry for re-editing).


bill, hi ! this is raj . wow, tone looks gorgeous. warm. like honey and treacle to me. straight out of a panavision rather than a panasonic ! tell me what's redrock and what adapter did you use to dock the nikon. and i presume you shot it at 720p, on cine-like, right ? and how did you light the subject. i'd be delighted to lap up a lighting diagram, (if any), much friendship, rajkumar

Edited by kpv rajkumar, 01 November 2007 - 09:10 PM.

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#5 Bill Totolo

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 11:37 PM

bill, hi ! this is raj . wow, tone looks gorgeous. warm. like honey and treacle to me. straight out of a panavision rather than a panasonic ! tell me what's redrock and what adapter did you use to dock the nikon. and i presume you shot it at 720p, on cine-like, right ? and how did you light the subject. i'd be delighted to lap up a lighting diagram, (if any), much friendship, rajkumar

Thanks Raj, just to be clear I was just B camera op. on this.

Obviously we didn't need anything lighting her face than the practicals in the shot. I positioned an arri 300 over her shoulder to add some detail to her hair, our DP put a cosmetic gel over it. He hit her from behind with an arri 650 and a large Chimera. The DP, hit the clothes rack in the b/g with a 300. I suggested a 1/4 BPM for the A cam, I thought it'd be nice to get a little halation around the practicals. The A cam was an HDX900 and I felt the the image was a little "too" crisp by comparison. The BPM was a good touch.

After we viewed the dailies (we had an editor doing rough cuts on-set) we all kind of fell in love with this setup. In fact I just found out that they're going to release the out takes to "Access Hollywood" for a segment on the actress.

We shot cine V 720/24P, std. settings but I dropped the master black to -3. We didn't want to limit any options in post.

The Redrock is a 35mm adapter, Raj. I used old Nikon AI primes. This was an 85mm wide open at F2.0 and the camera iris was set to "open". I was about 5 feet from the actress.

As far as framing, I had a brief rehearsal and we were off. So I really had to decide pretty quickly how I wanted to crop her and how much I wanted to emphasize the lead room in the shot. I've always kind of liked chopping foreheads.

The director was an accomplished photographer here in Hollywood. We really had to be on our game. I overlit a plant at one point and he gently came up and reminded me that we were going for a 'natural look'. Got it. A true gentleman, there's a lot to learn from him.

I don't know if there's much art to shooting junkets but I just pulled a one man band for a couple that will air on MTV U. They should air next week in support of Horror Fest, so I guess these will be my first national spots:

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#6 Michael Nash

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:52 AM

Small world -- Lake Dead is the previous feature from the director of the feature I gaffed/2nd Unit DP'd this summer (Farmhouse).
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#7 Bill Totolo

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 07:59 AM

Small world -- Lake Dead is the previous feature from the director of the feature I gaffed/2nd Unit DP'd this summer (Farmhouse).


Yep, they're both under Alliance Group Entertainment. I also did the junket for "Hotel California" that day. Any "six degrees of separation" going on there?
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#8 kpv rajkumar

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:40 PM

Thanks Raj, just to be clear I was just B camera op. on this.

Obviously we didn't need anything lighting her face than the practicals in the shot. I positioned an arri 300 over her shoulder to add some detail to her hair, our DP put a cosmetic gel over it. He hit her from behind with an arri 650 and a large Chimera. The DP, hit the clothes rack in the b/g with a 300. I suggested a 1/4 BPM for the A cam, I thought it'd be nice to get a little halation around the practicals. The A cam was an HDX900 and I felt the the image was a little "too" crisp by comparison. The BPM was a good touch.

After we viewed the dailies (we had an editor doing rough cuts on-set) we all kind of fell in love with this setup. In fact I just found out that they're going to release the out takes to "Access Hollywood" for a segment on the actress.

We shot cine V 720/24P, std. settings but I dropped the master black to -3. We didn't want to limit any options in post.

The Redrock is a 35mm adapter, Raj. I used old Nikon AI primes. This was an 85mm wide open at F2.0 and the camera iris was set to "open". I was about 5 feet from the actress.

As far as framing, I had a brief rehearsal and we were off. So I really had to decide pretty quickly how I wanted to crop her and how much I wanted to emphasize the lead room in the shot. I've always kind of liked chopping foreheads.

The director was an accomplished photographer here in Hollywood. We really had to be on our game. I overlit a plant at one point and he gently came up and reminded me that we were going for a 'natural look'. Got it. A true gentleman, there's a lot to learn from him.

I don't know if there's much art to shooting junkets but I just pulled a one man band for a couple that will air on MTV U. They should air next week in support of Horror Fest, so I guess these will be my first national spots:

Posted Image


thanks a ton for the info, bill. now, at the risk of sounding naive, tell me what happens to the image when you drop the master black level to -3 ? and how does this choice delimit our options in post ? btw, the warm delectability of the image is finessed by your highly nuanced choice of 1/4 bpm ! good little national spot to begin with, bill. reminds me of giuseppe rotunno and all that jazz ! cheers ! rajkumar :P
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#9 Bill Totolo

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 08:13 PM

thanks a ton for the info, bill. now, at the risk of sounding naive, tell me what happens to the image when you drop the master black level to -3 ? and how does this choice delimit our options in post ? btw, the warm delectability of the image is finessed by your highly nuanced choice of 1/4 bpm ! good little national spot to begin with, bill. reminds me of giuseppe rotunno and all that jazz ! cheers ! rajkumar :P
[/quote]

I dropped it to -3 as opposed to going further, that's all. We wanted to add some contrast to our shadows but not too much.

And the 1/4 BPM went into the 900, not to warm it but to add halation to the practicals and soften it a bit.

And you're much to generous with your compliments, but thanks.
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#10 kpv rajkumar

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Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:37 PM

thanks a ton for the info, bill. now, at the risk of sounding naive, tell me what happens to the image when you drop the master black level to -3 ? and how does this choice delimit our options in post ? btw, the warm delectability of the image is finessed by your highly nuanced choice of 1/4 bpm ! good little national spot to begin with, bill. reminds me of giuseppe rotunno and all that jazz ! cheers ! rajkumar :P


I dropped it to -3 as opposed to going further, that's all. We wanted to add some contrast to our shadows but not too much.

And the 1/4 BPM went into the 900, not to warm it but to add halation to the practicals and soften it a bit.

And you're much to generous with your compliments, but thanks.


wow, you're welcome and thanks a tonne again , bill ! much friendship, rajkumar
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#11 Ken Minehan

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:37 PM

Hi Bill the picture looks great. i love the mood very much. I am a user of the redrock and nikon lenses too and i am wondering how did you get that exposure with out additional lights on the face. How strong are the bulbs on the mirror? from what i've worked out the HVX and redrock give you an ASA of roughly 80asa. everytime i shoot with this setup i have to work very hard to light the subject to get the expoure to an acceptable level. But your picture looks perfect. How do you do it??
ken Minehan
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#12 Bill Totolo

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 02:02 AM

Hi Bill the picture looks great. i love the mood very much. I am a user of the redrock and nikon lenses too and i am wondering how did you get that exposure with out additional lights on the face. How strong are the bulbs on the mirror? from what i've worked out the HVX and redrock give you an ASA of roughly 80asa. everytime i shoot with this setup i have to work very hard to light the subject to get the expoure to an acceptable level. But your picture looks perfect. How do you do it??
ken Minehan


Thanks Ken,

You can't see them all in this frame but there were about 50 practicals in front of her spread over 15 feet.

There were, and I'm going to guess here, about 50 footcandles on her at about 2 feet from the mirror, which jives with your estimate since I was at a f2.0, I believe that means I rate the camera at 100asa (pretty close to 80asa).

I didn't check the bulbs but again, I'm going to guess on this, that they were between 75 and 100 watts. Anyone ever shoot upstairs at Pier 59 at Bergamot Station?
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#13 alessandro sambini

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 03:28 AM

HVX200, redrock, nikons (85mm f2.0), cine v

Posted Image

my 1st national ad (sorry for re-editing).


Hi, I am new here, and I am new to cinematography. But, let me say something: WOW!
I do not know how you did it, I just know that I would like to be as good as you are.
Nice colors, and nice how the bulbs are exposed.
Congratulations.
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#14 Rick Shepardson

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:12 PM

How did you avoid getting noise in the shadow areas?
I'm going to be shooting a short film on the HVX which will have some tones just below middle gray. Unfortunately my camera tests revealed this to be the worst area for noise.

I've heard this is just an issue that you have to accept on the HVX; that it doesn't handle the shadows really well. People tell me to use more light. It seems to me however that this would just cause me to lose the shadows that I wanted in the first place.

By the way, I'll be shooting 720/24P, film cam, cine like V.


I've been told that lowering the detail level helps. I tried that and it didn't really seem to make a difference.
Thanks,
Rick shepardson.
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#15 Pete Von Tews

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 03:03 PM

Hi Rick,

You might know this already, but if the "black balance" on the hvx is not set, it may lead to grainy blacks/greys. Always set the black balance before shooting, just hold down the white balance button for a few seconds.

-pete


How did you avoid getting noise in the shadow areas?
I'm going to be shooting a short film on the HVX which will have some tones just below middle gray. Unfortunately my camera tests revealed this to be the worst area for noise.

I've heard this is just an issue that you have to accept on the HVX; that it doesn't handle the shadows really well.


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#16 Walter Graff

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 09:34 PM

Don't want to sound like I'm letting the air out but personally I could never tell you how it looks being one picture. Don't know what it looks like moving, or anything else. Like breaking the seal of a bag of potato chips and saying they must be real good chips just because of the smell when the seal broke. This photo says little if anything about the shot, the camera or much of anything other than a shallow depth of field. Grain may not exist because of any number of reasons in making the video into a still. So I would not use one sample and draw too much on it. One doesn't know the full picture so to speak.

Which speaking of, I found a great way to create amazing Dof shallowness in FCP regardless of how shallow it was when you shot. Been using the technique lately and folks are raving. I'll have to post some examples.
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#17 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 12:23 AM

Don't want to sound like I'm letting the air out but personally I could never tell you how it looks being one picture. Don't know what it looks like moving, or anything else. Like breaking the seal of a bag of potato chips and saying they must be real good chips just because of the smell when the seal broke. This photo says little if anything about the shot, the camera or much of anything other than a shallow depth of field. Grain may not exist because of any number of reasons in making the video into a still. So I would not use one sample and draw too much on it. One doesn't know the full picture so to speak.

Which speaking of, I found a great way to create amazing Dof shallowness in FCP regardless of how shallow it was when you shot. Been using the technique lately and folks are raving. I'll have to post some examples.


Oh come on, Walter even the medieval alchemists didn't tease people like that. Please elaborate!

Thanks.
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#18 Rick Shepardson

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 02:58 AM

Hi Rick,

You might know this already, but if the "black balance" on the hvx is not set, it may lead to grainy blacks/greys. Always set the black balance before shooting, just hold down the white balance button for a few seconds.

-pete


Thanks,
I actually just read about that but haven't gotten my hands on the camera to do it yet.
Of everything I've read-black balance makes the most sense. Especially considering I'm using a school camera that is used extensively by many people.

Thanks again
-Rick Shepardson
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#19 Bill Totolo

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 08:52 AM

I don't have the footage but as I recall there was just a little grain/gain in the moving image. Cine V is very clean.
I think having bright objects in the frame helps to draw your eye away from that and gives the illusion of more dynamic range.

Walter is right, you can't judge a book by it's cover but I'd say this is a pretty fair representation of the moving image.

I think the TV ad campaign is on hold as this was for a diet product and the actresses keep losing weight faster than they can get the commercial to air. I guess that means the product works.
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#20 Walter Graff

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 09:41 AM

I think having bright objects in the frame helps to draw your eye away from that and gives the illusion of more dynamic range.

Absolutely. One of the tricks to 'eliminate' grain is to push the voltage so to speak having bright objects in the picture.

Walter is right, you can't judge a book by it's cover but I'd say this is a pretty fair representation of the moving image.

I'm sure it is. I just hate when folks make all sorts of ridiculous value judgments that simply can not be made from a compressed still of a still of a video frame. There are simply too many factors that come into play to make a reasonable judgment.

I think the TV ad campaign is on hold as this was for a diet product and the actresses keep losing weight faster than they can get the commercial to air. I guess that means the product works.

Or the cocaine is good and cut with speed. :)

Also be very careful posting pictures you do not have rights too, especially in such a situation. Basically if you are hired as a day player "work for hire" you do not own what you shoot unless stated in a memo, but if you are a company hired to produce the video then you do own the rights with or without a memo. Most important, if someone got wind that you posted such a picture and had some sort of agreement with the artist, you could be in a heap of trouble. And agencies as a whole to not treat use of 'their' precious intelectual property kindly. Yes the footage was left on your camera, but it is not yours to post publically. Just a heads up that if can be very dangerous to do.
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