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It's official! Vision 3


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#1 Adam Thompson

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:43 PM

Just saw that Kodak is going to officially annouce the new product they were hinting to... Vision 3.

I thought this was pretty cool news!
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#2 Roberflowers

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:58 PM

any idea what the new stocks are going to be?
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#3 Adam Thompson

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:32 PM

any idea what the new stocks are going to be?


One rumor was that there was a new 500T coming but this appears to be a whole new line. A thread in the stocks forum went into it more too.

I'm just very pleased to see the company investing in film as opposed to the other, plastic looking, capture mediums. Although the downside may be that the new stocks look even more clean and flat due to everyone's apparent love of sitting in DI suites forever. Id like a more contrasty stock option mixed in there myself.
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#4 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:13 PM

Hooooray!

Now if they can just get their prices in line with Fuji we'd be all set.

R,
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#5 K Borowski

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:26 PM

Well, it would make sense that they'd improve the 500T stock first with the new line, so this is probably what the rumor is alluding to. Now, far more important, what will the stock's new *number* be? Vision's 5279 was much better than Vision2 500T's 4-digit Kodak number. Hopefully they can make improvements with Vision 3 ;)

Seriously though, I agree that I hope we don't loose more contrast, but personally I love to see it when the grain gets smaller. Leave me dust, but take grain and scratches, please! Hopefully the new Vision 3 will allow for more noiseless HD footage (IDK if it's because they're shooting it at box speed or what, but I find a lot of the TV shows that shoot a lot of 35mm 500 film, like the CSIs, Law & Orders have noticeable grain). This will also be a boon to 16mm filmmakers shooting for HD or blowup; I consider 16mm Vision2 500 unusable at 1080i, personally. Hopefully this will allow for enough improvement to make 16mm film viable again here without having to resort to the 200 or 100 stocks.

~KB
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#6 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:54 PM

I think VISION3 will be good with Super 8 users. Anything to get rid of grain. :) And maybe buying a software won't be so bad. It's not as if the software is lighting for me after all. :) Though I think Kodak should bring out a least one low-speed, hi-con, daylight balanced stock.

:)
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#7 Roberflowers

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 03:57 PM

The last thing I just heard from a friend was that it was going to be 5219 500T with more contrast than the 18
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#8 Adam Thompson

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 04:09 PM

Seriously though, I agree that I hope we don't loose more contrast, but personally I love to see it when the grain gets smaller. Leave me dust, but take grain and scratches, please! Hopefully the new Vision 3 will allow for more noiseless HD footage (IDK if it's because they're shooting it at box speed or what, but I find a lot of the TV shows that shoot a lot of 35mm 500 film, like the CSIs, Law & Orders have noticeable grain). This will also be a boon to 16mm filmmakers shooting for HD or blowup; I consider 16mm Vision2 500 unusable at 1080i, personally. Hopefully this will allow for enough improvement to make 16mm film viable again here without having to resort to the 200 or 100 stocks.

~KB


Well even the older "Vision 1" 500T stocks in 16mm were perfectly viable for real production. The Squid and the Whale was shot that way (all on 500), Leaving Las Vegas on even older 16mm stocks, and lots since and before of course.

You see grain that bothers you in 35mm, on TV?? Wow, you must have a 40ft TV screen. I can barely notice it (and its not a bad thing anyway!) when I'm watching 500T 35mm movies in the theater, much less on TV, unless it's purposefully done. But maybe it's because I'm not trying to find some problem with every little thing; I'm enjoying the movie like everyone else. What bothers me are TV shows shot with Varicams or the like. It always looks so cheap and video like. Even worse are the huge numbers using little 3chip cams for TV... that's a joke and always looks like highschool level stuff (which I guess it is overall) Thank you so much MTV and VH1.

I understand less and less about what people are seeing out there, and why they like or don't like certain things with every new post. I give up. <_<

Long live real cameras and talent!
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#9 Adam Thompson

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 04:11 PM

I think VISION3 will be good with Super 8 users. Anything to get rid of grain. :)


So now grain is bad in 8mm stock??

Ok dudes, I think I'm on the wrong bus or something.
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#10 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 04:15 PM

So now grain is bad in 8mm stock??

Ok dudes, I think I'm on the wrong bus or something.



It's not that, I love grain. It's just that they can make wide shots on Super 8 vague and impressionistic.
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#11 K Borowski

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 06:19 PM

So now grain is bad in 8mm stock??

Ok dudes, I think I'm on the wrong bus or something.


Adam, it's not that grain is bad, but why shoot 16mm if it costs far more than HD and is also out-resolved by it? I'd still shoot 16mm in this case, but it'd be awfully hard to make a case for it if it doesn't even have any tangible benefits over digital acquisition. There was a post floating around here a while back talking about how BBC and some of the travelogue channels here in the US were banning 16mm-originated material.

I want color negative to continue to be (and to continue to keep me) competitive with the latest and greatest digital stuff. When I want grain, I can always push process or underexpose :-)

~KB
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#12 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 07:22 PM

Fine, go ahead and ignore my post in the "Film Stock & Processing" thread, I don't care! Ha ha

Here's Kodak's promo video for Vision3:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hub/v3/evolution.jhtml

Edited by Jonathan Bowerbank, 01 November 2007 - 07:22 PM.

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#13 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 07:36 PM

We have some 16mm and 35mm of the new 500t right now for tests, supposedly iti's another stop on each end and a finer grain structure...

-Rob-
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#14 Michael Collier

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 08:23 PM

Sounds interesting, but I want to know what tech is behind this new vision line of stocks? Has there been a big enough breakthrough in film tech to warrent a new vision, or has it been small incrimental changes and the new number is just marketing hype? I suppose they will probably reveal that in later months what exactly is 'under the hood' that will make it more useful/better than vision2.

It would be interesting to see a 800t (or maybe 1000d?) with the grain of 500t exposed and proccessed normally. Maybe michael mann would stop using 360shutters on vipers for night scenes.

Is this same promo film being played anywhere on projection, or can I at least get it on bluray? Seeing it online in quarter frame really does nothing for me.

last jab, probably a low blow and will start lots of pointless arguments, but I have too, will vision3 render red obsolete? :lol:
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#15 Dan Goulder

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 08:56 PM

last jab, probably a low blow and will start lots of pointless arguments, but I have too, will vision3 render red obsolete? :lol:

No, it won't. That task will be accomplished by the "next big electronic cinema camera", as well as the one after that, etc...
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#16 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 09:33 PM

It would be interesting to see a 800t (or maybe 1000d?) with the grain of 500t exposed and proccessed normally. Maybe michael mann would stop using 360shutters on vipers for night scenes.

last jab, probably a low blow and will start lots of pointless arguments, but I have too, will vision3 render red obsolete? :lol:



I think that the new stock is probably similar or better than what you would get from a 1 stop push of xx18 I loaded some 35 and I am going to shoot some with my eyemo over the weekend all my glass is slow for that cam (3 - 3.5) so it will be interesting to see what it can dig out in low light..I would say a finer grain stock with 2 more stops of latitude is a bit more than a marketing ploy....

As to bayer sensor color cameras....they will all have their own look but even the Dalsa (with probably the most latitude of any D-cine cam) will probably not be able to match the newer stocks for latitude.. you could also use a bayer camera to it's best properties by controlling contrast if you wanted to. There are going to be more and more bayer cams and they theoretically will get better to some degree...

-Rob-

-Rob-
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#17 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 09:40 PM

No, it won't. That task will be accomplished by the "next big electronic cinema camera", as well as the one after that, etc...


Good one!

R,
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#18 Charlie Peich

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 09:58 PM

Just curious here, but did anyone put $1,000 down to get some of the new Kodak Vision 3 stock?
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#19 A. Whitehouse

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 10:35 PM

Just curious here, but did anyone put $1,000 down to get some of the new Kodak Vision 3 stock?


I don't think you get the benefit of the extra 2 stops or the shadow detail until they release the firmware upgrade. Should be sometime next year, but its there; honest...
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#20 Logan Schneider

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 10:47 PM

I think that they will be stopping production after the first 50 cans and then telling everyone the 'great news' that they will be having a production hold for a few months.
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