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Multiple exposure of stock. Help.


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#1 Graham Lockey

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:08 PM

I was wondering if anyone could inform me whether it would be possible - via jiggery pokery of the lens or camera - to expose one half of a 16mm film stock then rewind and shoot the other half.

Could this be done and (if so) how; on either a Scoopic, Bolex H16 or K-3.
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#2 Graham Lockey

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:22 PM

Preferrably the Bolex as it's scratch tested...
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#3 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:31 PM

I was wondering if anyone could inform me whether it would be possible - via jiggery pokery of the lens or camera - to expose one half of a 16mm film stock then rewind and shoot the other half.

Could this be done and (if so) how; on either a Scoopic, Bolex H16 or K-3.


Of the cameras you mention Bolex H16, along with other earlier Bolexes can definetely be rewinded if you cover the lens. K3 can't. Scoopic don't know about. But you would have to be really carefull to frame the shots. If the line in the middle, ie. between the two images, gets overlap it could look rather cheap. That could take a couple of rolls to figure out without video assist. But it can, and has be done.
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#4 Graham Lockey

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:44 PM

I don't know if what I meant was fully conveyed by what I said. The Bolexes rewind function will help a great amount and so I will use that.

BUT, essentially I mean to black out half the lens or otherwise so that I can also shoot the other half of a single reel.

It's a response to a 16mm project brief of something along the lines of 'what you can do with a single reel of 16mm film'. Given that the characters are to essentially be responding to a black presence (The black leader I will cut in) it's not too much of a problem that both sides might not match perfectly. It's mainly that I get 7 minutes of 'cinema' from a 3 and a half minute reel.
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#5 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:03 PM

It's mainly that I get 7 minutes of 'cinema' from a 3 and a half minute reel.


It will still play back in 3 1/2 minutes, unless you're also going to mask and rewind in the projector.
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#6 Graham Lockey

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:16 PM

It's a slightly unorthodox idea, but I intend to cut the footage longitudinally and sub the lost half with black leader. Hence the 7 Minutes.
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#7 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 08:05 PM

It's a slightly unorthodox idea, but I intend to cut the footage longitudinally and sub the lost half with black leader. Hence the 7 Minutes.

better have a good long talk with teh lab about that one.. You are asking for major greif in either a transfer or a print if the film is non-standard.

You could place a mask jsut in front of the gate, ot keep one side from being exposed, and move it to the other side after you shoot 100ft. Rewind the roll in the darkroom and you are good to go. Some folks might use a SMALL paper punch to put a hole in the VERY CENTER of the film frame so that you could start your second pass from a known spot. you don't want to make more than a 3-4 mm hole for fear of weaking the film too much.

Labs get ticked off quickly if your film breaks because of something non-standard that you did

MY guess is that it would be considerable cheaper to just shoot two rolls..
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#8 Dominic Case

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 09:09 PM

MY guess is that it would be considerable cheaper to just shoot two rolls..

Probably, but the challenge seems to be to use a single roll.

When you say "cut the footage longitudinally", do you mean physically slitting the film? Or are you finishing in video or digital, in which case everything becomes dead easy?

If you slit the film it is going to be unprintable. But, if the challenge extends to finishing on film, then you might be able to do the job on an optical printer - if you could find a lab that still operates them. I can also think of a way you could do it with conventional printing - but it woud involve making two duplicate negatives, which probably exceeds the bounds of your challenge, and almost certainly would blow your budget.
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#9 Zachary Vex

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Posted 06 November 2007 - 06:33 PM

I don't know if this helps in the least, but it's possible to shoot with a regular 8mm camera and project that film in a 16mm projector, or presumably print it. I've shot the first half of the roll with the camera upside down, then flipped the roll and run the camera right-side-up for the second half, which is a pretty interesting projection in 16mm, four frames on the screen, two going forward, two going backward in time.

Edited by Zachary Vex, 06 November 2007 - 06:33 PM.

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#10 Graham Lockey

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 11:04 AM

The idea is to shoot, in turn, both sides of the image, so that when developed it would be possible to slit the film longitudinally and 'restore' the lost half with black leader, as the characters would've been reacting to the presence of the wall that this absence of light would infer to the viewer.

The idea of doing it either digitally or in the print is a no go, we're using splicers and steenbecks etc for the edit.

It does seem unfeasibly difficult to me, the chances of it just being completely eaten by the projector seem so high it may not be worth it.
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#11 Graham Lockey

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 12:43 PM

The idea is to shoot, in turn, both sides of the image, so that when developed it would be possible to slit the film longitudinally and 'restore' the lost half with black leader, as the characters would've been reacting to the presence of the wall that this absence of light would infer to the viewer.

The idea of doing it either digitally or in the print is a no go, we're using splicers and steenbecks etc for the edit.

It does seem unfeasibly difficult to me, the chances of it just being completely eaten by the projector seem so high it may not be worth it.



In fact the question was more of the logisitcs, would it be possible to mask and shoot twice? would there be any leak of light that would effect the exposure? Is it possible to splice longitudinally? I'm a novice at cinematography at present.
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#12 Chris Keth

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 04:57 PM

Find a "double run" 8mm camera. They used 16mm film and you would expose one side on one pass then reload the same spool you just shot adn expose the other side. Then it would be processed with oher 16mm film and then split in half lengthwise.
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#13 grant mcphee

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 05:31 PM

Find a "double run" 8mm camera. They used 16mm film and you would expose one side on one pass then reload the same spool you just shot adn expose the other side. Then it would be processed with oher 16mm film and then split in half lengthwise.


I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure the double run cameras, while using 16mm sized film have double the amount of perfs. So, when slit the can be used in an 8mm projector.
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#14 Chris Keth

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 06:39 PM

Hmm, probably. I've never actually seen one. Just heard about the idea.
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