Jump to content


Photo

Looking for Generator Governor crystal sync Barber-Coleman?


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Jason Osterday

Jason Osterday

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 06 November 2007 - 03:46 PM

Im looking for a governor add-on for putt putts. I've heard of Barber-Coleman units but couldn't find a link to anything online.

Can any of you guys point me in the right direction for finding something to regulate voltage/amps/hertz for gennys in order to run HMI's properly.
thanks
  • 0

#2 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:32 AM

Give Barbra Coleman a call. They do make them and perhaps they know someone in your area that adds the unit onto your generator.

Best

Tim

PS If you are in the NYC area, Marty, one of Panavision NY techs may do it for you. He keeps all of their generators running.
  • 0

#3 JD Hartman

JD Hartman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1690 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Edison, N.J. U.S.A.

Posted 07 November 2007 - 05:20 PM

Your talking about two different things here: voltage regulation; frequency requlation. Frequency regulation is done by controlling the generator speed, through...you guessed it, a governor. Cheap generators will have a mechanical unit, better generator will have an electronic units that samples the output and makes adjustments through a servo controlled throttle. Voltage regulation is via a regulator board and in better generators, OEM is usually sufficient. I'd be more concerned with the fuel supply, most small genys don't have a fuel pump. One should be added. There are other makers of frequency requlation equipment, Flight Systems is one of them.
  • 0

#4 Jason Osterday

Jason Osterday

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 09 November 2007 - 01:26 PM

Basically I'm asking what kind of add on is needed for a typical generator to run HMI lamps safely and where to get it.

What is more important for regulating? Frequency or Voltage?
  • 0

#5 Jason Osterday

Jason Osterday

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 09 November 2007 - 02:47 PM

Ok I called flight systems and they couldn't help me.

They did suggest something to convert 120V to 12V and then use a pure sine wave inverter. I've looked up the inverters and the pricing is a little steep on the 2000+ watt units (twice the cost of my generator). Still, I would need a 12V source (such as a battery). So where can I find a 120V to 12V converter that can then run to these inverters? That way I could run an outlet off the genny dedicated for HMI's and run them off the inverter.
  • 0

#6 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 10 November 2007 - 12:35 PM

Ok I called flight systems and they couldn't help me.

They did suggest something to convert 120V to 12V and then use a pure sine wave inverter. I've looked up the inverters and the pricing is a little steep on the 2000+ watt units (twice the cost of my generator). Still, I would need a 12V source (such as a battery). So where can I find a 120V to 12V converter that can then run to these inverters? That way I could run an outlet off the genny dedicated for HMI's and run them off the inverter.



A generator will already have a voltage regulator in it. You need a generator with a crystal sync unit to control hertz (frequency) to utilize HMI's

I would stay away from using a 120 volt to 12 volt convertor just to use a 12 volt to 120 volt invertor. Too many things can go wrong.

What kind of lights are you trying to power?

best

Tim
  • 0

#7 Adamo P Cultraro

Adamo P Cultraro
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 157 posts
  • Producer

Posted 10 November 2007 - 07:48 PM

Barber Colman is the way you spell it, and they were bought out by the Woodward Company which is why you can't find anything online. Check out their site at www.dynaproducts.com

And for all the speculators out there, this is what needs to happen: The generator is a gasoline engine coupled to a generator unit. The gasoline engine on board is set to a certain, constant RPM that will provide a 60Hz frequency (or 50 Hz in Euro). The way it achieves this is strictly through RPM. The voltage is the voltage and cannot be changed or regulated. The RPM of the engine is constant, but not constant enough for finer work or to power an HMI, for example. If you run power tools or household items on the genset, they won't care about the minor fluctuations in RPM. But as soon as you hook up an HMI, these variations cause the light to strobe or flicker as it is very sensitive to changes in frequency. Therefore an electronically controlled governor is added to the fuel system which keeps the RPM constant regardless of load, and this stops the light from flickering. It also keeps the frequency very close to 60 cycles which sensitive devices need.

Hope that helps!
  • 0

#8 JD Hartman

JD Hartman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1690 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Edison, N.J. U.S.A.

Posted 11 November 2007 - 09:03 PM

Did Flight Systems say they didn't have a unit for your generator or did they say that they thought adding a frequency governor was not a good idea economically?

Despite the assertions of another, voltage most certainly is regulated and can be adjust by varying the exciter field in the generator.

Edited by JD Hartman, 11 November 2007 - 09:05 PM.

  • 0

#9 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 11 November 2007 - 11:57 PM

Barber Colman is the way you spell it, and they were bought out by the Woodward Company which is why you can't find anything online. Check out their site at www.dynaproducts.com

And for all the speculators out there, this is what needs to happen: The generator is a gasoline engine coupled to a generator unit. The gasoline engine on board is set to a certain, constant RPM that will provide a 60Hz frequency (or 50 Hz in Euro). The way it achieves this is strictly through RPM. The voltage is the voltage and cannot be changed or regulated. The RPM of the engine is constant, but not constant enough for finer work or to power an HMI, for example. If you run power tools or household items on the genset, they won't care about the minor fluctuations in RPM. But as soon as you hook up an HMI, these variations cause the light to strobe or flicker as it is very sensitive to changes in frequency. Therefore an electronically controlled governor is added to the fuel system which keeps the RPM constant regardless of load, and this stops the light from flickering. It also keeps the frequency very close to 60 cycles which sensitive devices need.

Hope that helps!


I agree with JD that all generators have voltage regulators. I use large 1200 to 1400 amp generators on a daily basis and not only do they have one voltage regulator, they typically have a spare built in becasue they fail. They also have the ability to adjust the volatage for two reasons. First when switching from single to three phase or vice versa, the voltage varies and needs to be adjusted. Secondly one can adjust the voltage if the cable run is a bit too long and a voltage drop occurs.

Also HMI's basically flicker all the time. One just can't see it. They operate on alternating current after all. The light doesn't stop flickering just because the generator frequency is between the safe shooting zone of 59.75 and 60.25 hertz. The light "apparently" doesn't flicker because it is in sync with the camera shutter, but it is flickering all the time.

Best

Tim
  • 0

#10 Adamo P Cultraro

Adamo P Cultraro
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 157 posts
  • Producer

Posted 12 November 2007 - 11:38 AM

Guys - I answered the question in the context of the information given. Sure voltage can be adjusted - on a 1400 amp generator (!!!!!), but in the case of this guy's put put ( a sub 10kW genset at best), you aren't going to change the voltage without tools and equipment. (i.e it will not be a user adjustable feature on the control panel)
  • 0


Aerial Filmworks

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Opal

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

CineLab

CineTape

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc