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#1 michael rand

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 05:10 PM

I will be doing a job that requires two 5k fixtures. The fixtures have 60amp bates plugs on them.

is it possible to power them using this generator (format is video)
http://www.samsclub....amp;prDeTab=2#A

the generator has
1. a 120V 50amp receptacle (NEMA14-50 female) -separate circuit
2. three twistlock 30amp receptacles (all on seperate 30a circuits)
3. two standard 20a receptacles (on separate 20a circuits)

I am not going to try it without seeking counsel from a qualified electrician, but thought I would ask here first.

QUESTIONS:
- can I use one 5K on the 50a (converting Bates to Nema14-50 male)
- can I combine two 30a twistlocks from the genee into one Bates60 (with cable externally) to allow for the other 5K. again these are from separate circuits.

thanks!
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#2 michael rand

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 06:57 PM

some more specs on the unit: (thanks in advance for your expertise!)

3.2.1 GENERATOR SPECIFICATIONS
MODEL: GPS 15,000
Model #: 004582-2
Rated Max. Power: 15.0 kW
Surge Power: 22.5 kW
Rated AC Voltage: 120/240
Rated Max AC Load
Current @ 240V: 62.5 Amps
Current @ 120V: 125.0 Amps
Rated Frequency 60 Hz @3600 RPM
Phase: Single Phase
Rated DC Voltage 12 Volts
Rated Max DC Load
Current @ 12 Volts 10 Amperes

3.2.2 ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS
Rated Horsepower
@ 3600 RPM 30
Displacement 992cc
Spark Plug Type Champion RC14YC or Equivalent
Spark Plug Gap 0.040 inch or (1.01 mm)
Gasoline Capacity 16 U.S. gallons
Oil Type Summer ? SAE 30 or 10W-30 or Synthetic 5W-30 Winter ? 5W-30 or Synthetic 5W-20
Oil Capacity w/ Filter Change = 1.7 Qts. w/o Filter Change = 1.4 Qts.
Run Time/Fuel 10 Hours / 1.6 gallons per hour
Consumption-1/2 Load
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#3 John Sprung

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 07:39 PM

Paralleling the two 30 amp breakers is a bad idea if they're on the same leg of a 120/240 system, and won't work at all if they're on opposite legs. A 15K gene should do just fine with two 5K loads. You just have to get them on opposite legs.

The thing to do is take their panel apart, find the fat wires from the actual generator, and see where they go. That'll tell you which are hots and which is neutral. Then toss their breaker and receptacle setup and install your own. Put a 60 Amp breaker on each hot, and go to Bates from there. If you're lucky they may already have a set of 60 Amp main breakers, and all you need to do is get rid of the little stuff.




-- J.S.
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#4 michael rand

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 02:13 PM

thanks for the reply John

so when is the "2-fer" idea safe for adding amperage?

see post#2 at this link:
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/in...p;hl=2\.5K
(it seems to be accomplished there on a smaller level)

again, my genee is a sinlge phase and is capable of well over 100amps on separate circuits. the idea is to somehow combine those safely to power two 5Ks (and maybe some additional 2 ks)


in theory I like the idea of rewiring the generator internally, but that seems over my head

thanks in advance
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#5 michael rand

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 12:33 PM

any other thoughts on this anyone?

thanks!
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#6 Hal Smith

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 01:46 PM

Think of the generator as two separate 120 volt generators with a common neutral wire. The 120 volt 50 amp circuit is coming from one of those two generators. One hot terminal of the 240 volt 30 amp twistlocks will be coming from that generator, the other twistlock hot terminal will be coming from the other generator. If you measure the voltage from the 50 amp hot terminal to the hot terminals of the twistlocks, on one of the hot terminals of the twistlocks you'll measure 240 volts. That terminal is the other generator's output.

It's not the best idea in the world (nor code) to parallel (by making a wye cord) two of the second generator's hot terminals coming through separate breakers but it's not inherently unsafe. The downside is that if the two breakers aren't identical the current won't quite divide up equally between the breakers and as the load increases one, or the other, will trip out early - at which point the other breaker will be overloaded and trip out very quickly. If that becomes a problem, then find an electrician or gaffer and have them rewire the second generator to use either an internal 60 amp breaker and 60 amp Bates plug or jump the two internal 30 amp breakers and build an external distribution box with a 60 amp breaker in it.

If it were my generator, I'd pull all the internal breakers and build an external distro box with two 60 amp primary breakers each going to its own 60 amp Bates plug and additionally break down the 60 amp circuits to six individual 20 amp breakers with 20 amp Bates plugs paralleled with 20 amp twistlocks on each of them (three 20 amp breakers off each of the 60 amp breakers). Then I'd be able to run combinations of big and small lights, just not more than 60 amps at one time off either of the two sides of the generator's 240 volt (the "two" generators).

Final thought: You do know this generator isn't crystal controlled and won't have a constant and accurate 60 Hz output? That means that any HMI or Kino type light operated off of it MUST have flickerfree ballasts.
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#7 michael rand

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 03:31 PM

excellent. thanks for all the great info. much appreciated. you've saved me lots of time!
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#8 John Sprung

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 03:59 PM

If it were my generator, I'd pull all the internal breakers and build an external distro box with two 60 amp primary breakers each going to its own 60 amp Bates plug and additionally break down the 60 amp circuits to six individual 20 amp breakers with 20 amp Bates plugs paralleled with 20 amp twistlocks on each of them (three 20 amp breakers off each of the 60 amp breakers).

I'd go along with that as far as two 60 Amp breakers each feeding its own 60 Amp Bates female on the gene. Then make a separate distro box or two that goes from 60 Amp Bates male to whatever breakers and receptacles you want. You could either plug that box straight into the gene, or on the end of a run of cable. That way you can have your branch breakers where you're working, and the noise maker someplace else.

Look for a place that has the Square-D "QO" breakers and panels, don't use the light duty HomeLite stuff they carry at Home Depot. We're not talking a whole bunch of money just for the gene end of it -- two breakers and Bateses. You could probably get generic main type breakers, and use the existing enclosure.



-- J.S.
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#9 michael rand

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 07:21 PM

great advice. thanks
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#10 Adamo P Cultraro

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 10:15 PM

So where can you purchase a gasoline put put with all of this already done?
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#11 JD Hartman

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 06:30 PM

A 10 or 15k generator is not a "put-put". The generator sold by Sams does state, "electronic governor". It has no enclosure or much of a muffler. No statement of dB of noise at 10m. No mention of who makes the engine. Stated engine life is very short. Generator repair technicians don't hold Generac in very high regard.

If you are looking for a 5k generator for film use, no manufacturer builds one, ready to go, out of the box. That is why the units at rental houses are modified before being put into service. A good generator mechanic should be able to add the frequency regulation, fuel pump, Bates connector, camlocks, etc., if you explain what you need done. You may have to provide a source for parts or the parts themselves.
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