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don't load 100' DAYLIGHT loads in daylight...!


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#1 Justin Lovell

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 06:56 PM

Just shot some more super 16 on a job in brussels and it was all fogged on the first 20' of every roll.

Was shooting super 16 on a bolex using 100' daylight loads. Tried to load most of them in subdued light. Film stock was 7246 250 daylight.

Time to start loading my bolex in the dark bag.

Be wary.. its no wonder the 100' loads all say 'load in total darkness'... as before they used to say load in subdued light.

I don't think it would have been an issue if I were shooting regular 16mm, as the light leak is only really affecting the super 16 extra image area (where the sound would normally have been striped).
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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 09:03 PM

When I first started shooting Super 16 I experienced that often because I got in the lazy habit of loading regular 16mm 100' loads in daylight.

You can get away with it more with slower stocks...

I usually load in the one room in the house without windows (a bathroom) with lights off but the door cracked a little. Haven't had a problem even with 500T that way.
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#3 Nick Mulder

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Posted 18 November 2007 - 09:25 PM

Its something most users new to super16 go through - especially if they are used to reg16 ...

Perhaps it should be included in the super16/16mm/1R/2R FAQ ...
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#4 Justin Lovell

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:03 AM

When loading a bolex, is there a way to check the movement of the film visually?

I suppose not if it has to be loaded in the dark.


-the 500t that I loaded did not have fogging, however I was defineatly loading it in a darker area.
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#5 Nick Mulder

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 04:50 AM

When loading a bolex, is there a way to check the movement of the film visually?


Well, you should expect the loop formers to make a good loop and not have the film rubbing anywhere through being too big or choking from being too short in the first instance...

Thats about the only thing I can think of in a loaded Bolex that you might not hear going wrong in total darkness...

When I did my super16 conversions I had to realign the whole lot in completion and in the process learn how the system as a whole made a good loop - for my first paid gig shooting in super16 I was really panicking when I loaded it in darkness as I now knew how much could go wrong from bad adjustment... But I knew it was ok now, and still is ... basically, if it loads inconsistently enough in light for you to worry about it doing it in the dark, it needs adjustment - A well, adjusted loop former/gate/claw mechanism should - or I'll just say it> will work correctly every time ...

But to answer your question maybe just point a very low intensity flashlight at it (use near dead batteries and snoot it with tape) - or get good at reading it like braille ;)
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#6 Will Montgomery

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 09:20 AM

Another little trick is to put a heavy blanket or your changing bag just over the reels and look at the loop in as subdued light as possible. I do this with my K3 and haven't had any problems. My Scoopic has that autoload feature that works perfectly everytime so I don't even have to look at it (but then it's not S16...)
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#7 steve hyde

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:00 PM

Justin,

On my Filmo project, I loaded all the daylight rolls out in the open light. I would drape my changing bag over the top to subdue the light, but never tried to load it in the bag because it is critical to get the loops right. I was primarily shooting 7201 (50D) On average I lost the first 6 feet (10 secs) because of instability in the image and fog. That is normal. I always used the changing bag to remove the film roll so I didn't loose anything on the tale end.

Steve
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#8 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:15 PM

I don't think daylight spools (or the cameras that use them) were ever designed with faster stocks in mind...
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#9 John Sprung

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:26 PM

Daylight spools depend on having the sprocket holes and the outer edge of the film available to absorb the light that gets in between the flanges and the sides of the wound film. I know with the eyemo, fast stocks work OK if you load where it's dim -- like single digit footcandles. Super 16 uses everything out to within 0.020" of the edge. Three sheets of ordinary xerox paper stacked up are about 0.020" thick. That's the big difference here.



-- J.S.
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#10 steve hyde

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 01:39 PM

I don't think daylight spools (or the cameras that use them) were ever designed with faster stocks in mind...



....or Super 16 modifications..

Steve
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#11 Will Montgomery

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 05:08 PM

....or Super 16 modifications..

Or indoor plumbing... ;)
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#12 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 06:25 PM

Shouldn't we shooters all have dark bags by now anyway? ;)
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#13 Volker Bendt

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:03 PM

Shouldn't we shooters all have dark bags by now anyway? ;)

There is a simple trick that works everywhere. First prepare some empty 100 feet plastic cans. Make a center hole of around 10mm into the bottom part, then cut corresponding slots into the sides of both, bottom part and cover. Take it in the dark bag, fill your fresh film into this can (cover down, bottom up), pull around 2 feet out through the slot and close the can. Take it out of the bag. Now you can feed the camera with the film safe in the can. There is time enough to control the loop without fogging the film. Once the camera is loaded and the film fixed to the empty spool, remove the cover (which is the bottom now), place the full spool to its seat, still fully protected by the bottom of the can, which is upmost now. You can control the seat through the center hole in the bottom, the film is still protected. When everything is fine remove the protecting underpart of the can and close the camera. I have a couple of such cans and fill them timely befor shootig, so I can reload the camera wherever necessary.
That's all. Apologies for my english, I hope I could make it clear.

Volker.
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#14 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 01:57 AM

Roughly ten or twelve years ago Kodak eliminated the cyan filter layer from color negative stocks designed for daylight loading spools.
Until then a process-removable cyan filter layer was put in the stock only on these emulsion batches that would end up on daylight spools.
This filter layer was very effective against edge fogging but not very economical for the small quantity of stock to be made specially for daylight loading. They changed the text on the packaging to 'Load in complete darkness' at the same time.
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