Jump to content


Photo

4K and up on a scissor lift


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Daniel Wallens

Daniel Wallens
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts
  • Grip
  • New York City

Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:42 PM

Hello all!

I was just wondering about your ideas on putting a 4K or something of similar size on a smallish scissor lift. Our production can't afford more than a 20-footer, but I think I need a little more height than that. A crankovator would be nice, but the base is too big for the lift. I was thinking about rigging a candle stick onto it, but that won't give me much adjustable height.

Any ideas?
  • 0

#2 Andrew Wheeler

Andrew Wheeler
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, CA

Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:43 AM

Instead of a candlestick you could just rig a combo stand with the legs in with some chain vice grips. I wouldnt go up more that one riser if you do that though.
  • 0

#3 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:16 AM

I wouldn't want to put any weight at the side of a scissor lift (i.e. candlestick). I'd keep the weight in the center of the basket. It's not a condor.
  • 0

#4 Daniel Wallens

Daniel Wallens
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts
  • Grip
  • New York City

Posted 22 November 2007 - 12:58 PM

I wouldn't want to put any weight at the side of a scissor lift (i.e. candlestick). I'd keep the weight in the center of the basket. It's not a condor.

Well, then why not put the candlestick in the center? Meaning, center lengthwise, against one of the sides.

Andrew,
I was thinking about the stand-with-the-legs-in option as well. But I wasn't sure how accepted a practice or how safe this was.
  • 0

#5 Jess Haas

Jess Haas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Santa Monica, Ca

Posted 23 November 2007 - 12:38 AM

Well, then why not put the candlestick in the center? Meaning, center lengthwise, against one of the sides.

The other direction is the least stable so this isn't the best idea. I would put a combo stand in the middle of the basket and ratchet strap it down, especially if you are planning on raising it any.

Scissor lifts don't handle loads on the side as well as condors do so rigging much to the side might not be a great idea.

~Jess
  • 0

#6 Daniel Wallens

Daniel Wallens
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts
  • Grip
  • New York City

Posted 23 November 2007 - 10:24 AM

I would put a combo stand in the middle of the basket and ratchet strap it down,

Well, the thing is, it is going to be a pretty small lift. And as I was saying, I think it will be too narrow to spread out the legs of a stand. Of course, if we were using a like a scaffold, then of course, I'd do it this way.
  • 0

#7 Jess Haas

Jess Haas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Santa Monica, Ca

Posted 23 November 2007 - 06:34 PM

Even if you have to have it skinnied up a bit I would think that it would work fine. The legs don't have to be out all of the way as long as you secure it well.

If the lift is small enough to have trouble fitting a stand then I would be concerned about putting much of a load on the edge of the basket. You definitely don't want a load outside of the basket.

~Jess
  • 0

#8 Matthew Parnell

Matthew Parnell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts
  • Electrician
  • Brisbane, Australia

Posted 24 November 2007 - 07:24 AM

Check your load limits. Remember not to just factor in the weight of your lamphead and balast, but the weight of a lamp op(even if only for the initial focus), the rigging hardware or stands and the cables, even include the weight of the cables right to the ground. Small scissor lifts tend to only have about 90-120kg of weight tolerance.
  • 0

#9 Jon Rosenbloom

Jon Rosenbloom
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 713 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 25 November 2007 - 05:46 PM

Is this going to play inside or outside? My biggest concern would be making sure the lift is level before it goes up. If it's one of those electric scissor lifts with the hard little tires, you might have trouble driving it onto the leveling blocks. But, if you can get it level, then just chain vice in a candlestick. You can't adjust the height of the candlestick, so if you want to go higher ... get a bigger lift. There's no other answer. All this talk of ratcheting in stands is dangerous and a waste of time. (I think two heights of scaffold, plus a crank-o-vater will get you to 25'.)

Every lift has it's weight capacity printed in an obvious place. Of course, you can ask the rental agency what the capacity is when you order it. At only 20', there's no reason to put the ballast in the bucket. Further, you can focus the light, bring the operator down, and then send the lift back up unmanned.
  • 0

#10 Daniel Wallens

Daniel Wallens
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 214 posts
  • Grip
  • New York City

Posted 25 November 2007 - 11:05 PM

This will be playing outside, shining in through a second story window. The height from the ground to the bottom of the window is supposedly 17 feet. The DP estimates that he'll want about a 30-degree angle on the light from above.

The lift I was thinking about was (yes) an electric with hard wheels -- and in my experience, these are quite picky about being on a level surface to operate. But getting a gas wouldn't be as convenient (for sound issues -- we'd have to turn it on/off in order to tweak it). A scaffold is out of the question for other logistical reasons, plus, having a lift makes quick tweaks easier.

Of course, I'd make sure of the weight capacity of the lift. That's not really the issue here. I just was asking for suggestions as to the height (will a 20' lift + candlestick give me a 30 degree angle considering the 17' window?), leveling of an electric lift, and any other ways to get any height out of this setup.

:)
  • 0

#11 robert duke

robert duke
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts
  • Grip
  • southeast USA

Posted 26 November 2007 - 09:23 AM

No, it wont get you the 30' angle you were looking for with only a candlestick. To get anywhere close to your 30' angle the lift would have to be 1-2ft from the window. 17' to bottom of window with a 20' lift. Placing the head of the fixture in the middle of the window, and not filling the window.

You will need a taller lift. Somewhere around 30' is where you need to be in order to get 6' away from the window which is still not very much to allow for the beam to spread. A(squared) + B(squared)= C(squared). Remember geometry.

Spend the money and get a 40' condor. Safety Costs a little more but is worth the extra money.
Leveling a scissor lift is a dangerous game. One wrong move will cost someone a life.

Don't worry about sound they wont be rolling while you adjust the lighting. Production sometimes has to wait while things are focused. Including the camera.
  • 0

#12 Hal Smith

Hal Smith
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2280 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • OKC area

Posted 26 November 2007 - 09:41 AM

Spend the money and get a 40' condor. Safety Costs a little more but is worth the extra money.
Leveling a scissor lift is a dangerous game. One wrong move will cost someone a life.

The crew I work with at the Oklahoma City Civic Center Music Hall won't go up in their 30' Genie without setting the outriggers, even on a dead flat stage. Levelling and setting outriggers is how you stay alive around tall equipment. It's not a bad idea to wear a harness either.
  • 0

#13 robert duke

robert duke
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts
  • Grip
  • southeast USA

Posted 26 November 2007 - 09:57 AM

The crew I work with at the Oklahoma City Civic Center Music Hall won't go up in their 30' Genie without setting the outriggers, even on a dead flat stage. Levelling and setting outriggers is how you stay alive around tall equipment. It's not a bad idea to wear a harness either.



There is quite a difference from a scissor lift and a genie manlift. Scissor lifts do not have leveling outriggers. Manlifts are required to have leveling outriggers. A 30' genie only goes 25' up, creating a working height of 30'. I have in the past and learned the error of my ways put a candlestick on a genie with a 6k par. I don't feel safe now with that. It leaves no room for operator.

30' up in a manlift on hardfloors even if they are sprung for dance is much safer than 30' up in a manlift on soil.
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Opal

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Opal

CineLab

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Visual Products

The Slider