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Tobin 16-S/M Crystal Motors Returning


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#1 Clive Tobin

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 02:19 PM

We previously discontinued the TCS TXM-22A multispeed crystal motors for Arri 16-S and 16-M cameras. This was owing to sales being rather slow, the Arri 16mm cameras not being converted to super-16 and ordinary 16mm becoming obsolete, and our being swamped with orders for our TVT series of telecine machines.

In the meantime, we have heard that Visual Products will be offering the first fully satisfactory (their words) Super-16 conversion which may revitalize the market for motors. Also we are finally getting caught up with the back ordered TVTs.

So we are gearing up to make another run of the crystal motors, and they should be available in a few months.

The design does not always give reliable running at 50 FPS so we might eliminate this speed from the dial. The position will still be there but not marked.

I am wondering if a run of say 25 units will be enough to satisfy the market for the next few years? Who will promise to buy one when they are available?

(Tim, I hope this stops your whining!) :-)
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 02:31 PM

Clive,

Okay, no more whining. That's great news. I get regular requests on the web site for these. Once you get things firmed up, let me know and I'll put something up about it.

Had not heard about the Visual Products thing, care to elaborate or let me know where you found the information?

Thanks Clive, and again, great news,
-Tim
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#3 Clive Tobin

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 02:56 PM

...Had not heard about the Visual Products thing, care to elaborate or let me know where you found the information?...


I was talking to Paul S. the repair guy. He didn't say it was a secret.
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#4 Chris Gravat

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 03:10 PM

Clive,

I will definitely buy one if you in fact decide to make a few more units.

Chris Gravat
Boston, MA
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#5 Tim Carroll

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 08:23 PM

Even without the Super 16 conversion (which sorry I'm a skeptic and will believe it when I see it) the Tobin crystal sync motor makes the Arriflex 16S and 16M cameras so much more versatile. You can read about and listen to different methods of quieting the camera for dealing with sound sync below:

Barney and Noise Reduction Software

ARRI Lightweight Fibre Glass Blimp 16

And you can shoot 16:9 with the camera the way it is, without a Super 16 conversion:

Shooting 16:9 with your Arriflex 16S or 16M

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned much about Clive's TXM-22 motor is that not only will it run crystal sync for you at 24 fps (or 25 fps for Europe), but it also runs crystal speeds at 12 fps, 20 fps, 30 fps, 40 fps and possibly 50 fps. What this does for you, compared to using the ARRI variable speed or other variable speed motors which are "wild" is that it gives you very consistent exposure at those speeds. If you have ever run one of the "wild" variable speed motors on the camera and checked it with a strobe, the speed is fluctuating all over the place, which gives you inconsistent exposure and possibly flicker. So using Clive's motor for any kind of effects work on your film gives you very consistent speed and exposure results.

Glad to see it coming back,
-Tim
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#6 Craig Mieritz

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 08:50 PM

Even without the Super 16 conversion (which sorry I'm a skeptic and will believe it when I see it) the Tobin crystal sync motor makes the Arriflex 16S and 16M cameras so much more versatile. You can read about and listen to different methods of quieting the camera for dealing with sound sync below:

Barney and Noise Reduction Software

ARRI Lightweight Fibre Glass Blimp 16

And you can shoot 16:9 with the camera the way it is, without a Super 16 conversion:

Shooting 16:9 with your Arriflex 16S or 16M

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned much about Clive's TXM-22 motor is that not only will it run crystal sync for you at 24 fps (or 25 fps for Europe), but it also runs crystal speeds at 12 fps, 20 fps, 30 fps, 40 fps and possibly 50 fps. What this does for you, compared to using the ARRI variable speed or other variable speed motors which are "wild" is that it gives you very consistent exposure at those speeds. If you have ever run one of the "wild" variable speed motors on the camera and checked it with a strobe, the speed is fluctuating all over the place, which gives you inconsistent exposure and possibly flicker. So using Clive's motor for any kind of effects work on your film gives you very consistent speed and exposure results.

Glad to see it coming back,
-Tim



Wow. That blimp really eliminated the camera noise.
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#7 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:24 PM

Put me down for 1! Can we pre-order them online or over the phone? and price?

love,
kirk
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#8 Hal Smith

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 11:32 PM

Clive,

You should rename the motor "BLUE", claim it will obsolete all previous motors, and take 25% deposits. :)
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#9 Clive Tobin

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:23 PM

Clive, You should rename the motor "BLUE", claim it will obsolete all previous motors, and take 25% deposits. :)


Thanks for your replies, guys. You might as well not pre-order as we are likely to lose it, and we are not requiring deposits. Price will I think be $895 which is the same as previously. Unless I can charge extra if it is painted blue. ;-)
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#10 Babar Khan

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 04:39 PM

Hi Clive,
Any chance of your IIC crystal motor returning too? :)
Babar
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#11 Hal Smith

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 05:20 PM

Hi Clive,
Any chance of your IIC crystal motor returning too? :)
Babar


They do show up on eBay from time to time. Search for "Arri Tobin" and/or "Arriflex Tobin" in All Categories. (The quotes aren't required).
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#12 Clive Tobin

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 08:52 PM

Hi Clive, Any chance of your IIC crystal motor returning too? :) Babar

Could be. We have been advised though that we need to hide the upright motor of the TXM-21Ab as this has led to disparaging remarks from some people, from what we've heard. (Oh, the horror, we can see the MOTOR! I won't buy this model although it is perfect otherwise!!!)

Maybe a giant size beer can over the motor, painted blue so we can sell it for more money? Maybe we'll call it the TXM-21Ab/B/BC for Blue and Beer Can. ;-)

Seriously, we will likely make it more like black this time, with automatic switching of input voltage polarity to avoid confusion over Arri vs. Panavision 24 volt reversed pin connections.

If thinking about buying one on Ebay, be advised that the TXM-18 and TXM-21 had a bit of a flicker problem when driving cameras with erratic magazine or overall friction (i.e. most of them) as the small motor hidden inside the flat base (that everyone said was an absolute necessity) didn't have enough reserve torque and inertia. It bothered some people on some subject matter but not others. The TXM-21A largely cured the flicker using revised electronics needing a cooling fan, the TXM-21Aa with a big motor completely fixed it, and the TXM-21Ab also had a big motor and had a wider range of speeds.
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#13 Scott Bryant

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 05:14 PM

I know this is the wrong forum, but it would be sweet to see some new eclair models come back too. :)
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#14 Tim Carroll

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 10:25 PM

Hi Clive,
Any chance of your IIC crystal motor returning too? :)
Babar


One just showed up on eBay, whether it is a legitimate auction or not I can't say, but it may be worth checking out.

Tobin 21ab on eBay

-Tim
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#15 Tim Carroll

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 01:56 PM

Hi Clive,
Any chance of your IIC crystal motor returning too? :)
Babar



It's like Clive Tobin IIC motor week on eBay. A TXM-18 just showed up.
Tobin TXM-18 motor for Arri IIC on eBay

Best,
-Tim
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#16 Will Montgomery

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 04:18 PM

Good news Clive.

How about a few K3 motors while you're at it? They are hard to come by on eBay.
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#17 kevin jackman

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 10:18 AM

and a run of cameflex cm3 motors. i dont mind putting a deposit down. how much would they sell for approximatly and what numbers do you need for a batch? theres one other guy doing a cm3 motor but id rather not go there
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#18 Leslie Bates

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:31 PM

Good news Clive.

How about a few K3 motors while you're at it? They are hard to come by on eBay.

I recall seeing a K3 for sale on EBay that had been fitted with an adapter for a ARRI motor.

This was a year or two ago.
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#19 Clive Tobin

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 04:06 PM

...So we are gearing up to make another run of the crystal motors, and they should be available in a few months.... (Tim, I hope this stops your whining!) :-)

The latest batch is now starting to come off the assembly line. There are 5 finished right now and the other 20 should be done testing in a few days.

So now is the time for everyone who said they would buy one to put their money where their, er, keyboard is. ;-)

I am giving readers of this group the first crack at them, before updating the web site. Get 'em while they're hot.
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#20 flavio filho

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 11:10 AM

The latest batch is now starting to come off the assembly line. There are 5 finished right now and the other 20 should be done testing in a few days.

So now is the time for everyone who said they would buy one to put their money where their, er, keyboard is. ;-)

I am giving readers of this group the first crack at them, before updating the web site. Get 'em while they're hot.


Wow. Here I am replying to a post 3 years old...
All I have to say is actually a plea...

Clive! PLEASE build some wonderful crystal-sync for us!
Here, speaking to you from the future in 2011, I can tell you now they're pretty scarse... Very scarse.

I've just bought two Arri 16s kits, and willing to put them at their best! And convert them to ULTRA16.

Why not manufacture a hundred and see how they go? After looking at DOZENS of posts where people are FAMISHED for a single 12V Crystal-Sync... I BET they would go pretty quick.

I'd like 2, please... :P

Edited by flavio filho, 21 May 2011 - 11:14 AM.

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