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#1 Mike Brennan

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 06:11 AM

Anyone tried RED 4k from camera to 4K filmout?


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#2 Lance Flores

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 12:10 PM

Yes. Jim Mathers did a tour shooting in several cities and DCS did a film out, (infra). However, he was so rushed and short of resources, he couldn't get in sufficient production value to properly evaluate or establish a baseline. Jim has done much more analysis and evaluation since that time.

You're right in looking for that type data. I've seen a lot of expert opinions on images or Internet clips that are little more than speculation, conjecture, supposition or unsubstantiated superstition based on incomplete information.

We're waiting for our male A list lead to sign and we will begin our test shoots with either Dalsa's Origin or the Red. Jim's continuing to evaluate the Red so you might want to monitor things on the DCS website or join the organization to keep abreast of the evaluation of the red and other digital cinema news.

Anyone tried RED 4k from camera to 4K filmout?
Mike Brennan


- - - - - -

DSC is having an L.A. Area RED Event on October 6th, 1-4pm on the campus of California State University at Northridge, in Manzanita Hall, Room 170.

Jim Mathers will host the event in which they will screen in film and 4K digital (Sony SXRD) from the results of their test shoots. They will also be an introduction of the camera function and anin-depth discussion of the workflow. Ted Schilowitz, Ramy Katrib of DigitalFilm Tree, Filmmaker and RED One Owner Dale Launer, Lucas Wilson from Assimilate, as well as John Daro from Foto Kem, (who have kindly donated their services to create the 4K and Filmout demos) will present.

RSVP with: RED-CSUN in the subject line to: Mathers@digitalcinemasociety.org


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#3 Mike Brennan

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 04:58 PM

Yes. Jim Mathers did a tour shooting in several cities and DCS did a film out, (infra). However, he was so rushed and short of resources, he couldn't get in sufficient production value to properly evaluate or establish a baseline. Jim has done much more analysis and evaluation since that time.

You're right in looking for that type data. I've seen a lot of expert opinions on images or Internet clips that are little more than speculation, conjecture, supposition or unsubstantiated superstition based on incomplete information.

We're waiting for our male A list lead to sign and we will begin our test shoots with either Dalsa's Origin or the Red. Jim's continuing to evaluate the Red so you might want to monitor things on the DCS website or join the organization to keep abreast of the evaluation of the red and other digital cinema news.



- - - - - -


Sounds like a serious project.
Would you be brave enough to test both Dalsa and RED at same time!



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#4 Lance Flores

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 09:57 PM

Sounds like a serious project.
Would you be brave enough to test both Dalsa and RED at same time!

Mike Brennan


I don't understand your question. We will shoot with a Phantom HD for our overcrank shots and need to match the cameras. So we need to decide on the camera we will use for 24fps -- so we need resolve that issue soon. Seems rather foolish to set up twice. If Jim feels the RED will preform well for us in the next couple of weeks then we'll go with it if I like what I see. If not we'll use the Origin. I do wish the Origin had a small form factor though.

Edited by Lance Flores, 26 November 2007 - 09:58 PM.

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#5 Mike Brennan

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 12:30 PM

I don't understand your question.


Will you do a comparative test between Dalsa and RED side by side in the same place at the same time, ie a shoot out or just test one camera?

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#6 Adam Smith

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:24 AM

We are ready to shoot a new low budget independent 3D feature and had a chance to test the amazing new Red camera. The look is extremely filmic. The only problem we had is that when the camera warms up, it goes out of focus somewhat. First we thought that it was a major problem, then we realized how useful it is. It gives you a superb film look. Power the camera up, let it sit for 45 minutes and you don't need any diffusion filtering. It gives you an amazing grainy film look with the right amount of softening, otherwise the image is too sharp, which lowers the filmic quality. Now, I love the film look and find HD CAM SR, which we tested to be too clean, too much video-like. It lacks the sharpness of the Red, but the lack of grain is what makes it unnaturally looking.

We measured about 3K equivalent resolution output on the Red, which is exacly what we need. Theater projection is about 1.5K. Wit a 3D stereoscopic adapter you can get 2x1.5K resolution out of this camera, which is amazing and exactly what we need.

The news is that the camera will be soon replaced by Red with an updated model, free of charge, and instead of the shims it is now using for back focus adjustment, which we did not like, there will be an adjustable back focus, which will not only allow to adjust for the back focus shift when the camera is powered up, but also will allow to set the proper amount of diffusion to the image for people like me, who love the film look.

My only criticism is that the camera runs a little hot and does not have the superb professional feel of top HD cameras, but these facts have nothing to do with the superb image quality it produces. I truly love this camera!

Edited by Adam Smith, 12 December 2007 - 01:25 AM.

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#7 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:26 AM

I love grain!

Then I guess you must prefer to shoot film huh?
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#8 Adam Smith

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:30 AM

I prefer the flexibility of digital cinema, with the film look. You don't have to worry about how much film you use and still have the film look. You don't have to wait for dailies!
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#9 Jess Haas

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 02:45 AM

The only problem we had is that when the camera warms up, it goes out of focus somewhat. First we thought that it was a major problem, then we realized how useful it is.

Your kidding right?

~Jess
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:06 AM

I'm not sure RED wants people saying that the reason it looks better than the Dalsa is that it is noisier (for that "film look") and that it goes out of focus more easily... I'm not sure I'd describe the look of 35mm film as being fuzzy and grainy either.

It is possible to underexpose the Dalsa and get noise out of that sensor too, you know.
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#11 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 03:16 AM

Your kidding right?

~Jess


I don't see how an overall softer image can be more "filmic", unless you're looking for the buzzed focus look of anamorphic or something. But even then, I don't understand how you would be OK with it?

Also, is this an isolated incident? Or is it occurring elsewhere?
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#12 John Brawley

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:57 AM

Your kidding right?

~Jess


Maybe he is....

Hmm. Call me cynical....

It's in the RED sub forum. Alarm Number 1.
It's from a poster who joined a few hours ago. Alarm number 2.
No Location. Alarm number 3
has already clocked up 10 posts....all effusive about Red. Alarm number 4.
Adam "Smith" ???

Nahhhhhhh

(and hey. Im ready to shoot Red. Have at least 2 films next year going this way)

jb
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#13 Max Jacoby

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 08:51 AM

My thought also.
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#14 Lance Flores

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 09:49 AM

Maybe he is....

Hmm. Call me cynical....

It's in the RED sub forum. Alarm Number 1.
It's from a poster who joined a few hours ago. Alarm number 2.
No Location. Alarm number 3
has already clocked up 10 posts....all effusive about Red. Alarm number 4.
Adam "Smith" ???

Nahhhhhhh

(and hey. Im ready to shoot Red. Have at least 2 films next year going this way)

jb


Okay. You're cynical - but rightly so. The guy must have some experience though, over two centuries old. Checked profile - nothing there. So much for real names.
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#15 Mitch Gross

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 11:22 AM

The only problem we had is that when the camera warms up, it goes out of focus somewhat. First we thought that it was a major problem, then we realized how useful it is. It gives you a superb film look. Power the camera up, let it sit for 45 minutes and you don't need any diffusion filtering.

Funniest thing I've read on this forum in a while.
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#16 Max Jacoby

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:31 PM

Funniest thing I've read on this forum in a while.

Do you think he realized that what he said isn't really a compliment, but rather the opposite ;)
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#17 Gavin Greenwalt

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Posted 12 December 2007 - 07:02 PM

I've also never seen anyone mistake out-of-focus for diffusion before either. They don't exactly look the same. ;)

Edited by Gavin Greenwalt, 12 December 2007 - 07:03 PM.

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