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Genesis vs. F-23


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#1 Arturoo

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 03:56 PM

Hi, What is the difference between Panavision Genesis and Sony F-23?
How is Better?
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#2 Paul Maibaum ASC

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 05:12 PM

Genesis has a 35mm chip, F23 2/3" chip. Use 35mm format lenses on Genesis....35mm depth of field and that much more info going to the chip. Based on that comparison IMHO I would say Genesis preferred system. I have not yet used F23.
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 05:19 PM

I won't say either one is "better," as they are different machines. The biggest difference is that the Genesis uses a single Super35-sized CCD and Panavision film lenses and accessories, while the Sony F23 uses three 2/3" CCD's and HD B4-mount lenses. The Genesis is essentially designed to be a digital cinema camera for Panavision, integrating with their other 35mm products. The Sony F23 is designed to be a high-end HD camera aimed at the commercial market.

The F23 is supposed to have an improved prism that allows for a wider color gamut than was previously possible with 3CCD cameras, allowing for a more film-like color response (the Genesis uses a single RGB-filtered, non-Bayer CCD, avoiding the limitations of a prism). The F23 can do speed ramping in-camera, and has Sony's latest gamma controls and options. It also has other commercial-oriented features like synch-pulse output for strobelights. I'm not sure if the Genesis includes some of these options.

http://www.panavisio...qt4t5fr30g62gn5

http://www.panavisio...enesis_FAQs.pdf

http://bssc.sel.sony...shoot/f23.shtml
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#4 John Sprung

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Posted 27 November 2007 - 07:37 PM

Hi, What is the difference between Panavision Genesis and Sony F-23?
How is Better?

It's sort of like asking whether a limo is better than a sports car. Viper and F-23 would be a much tighter comparison.




-- J.S.
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#5 Arturoo

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 07:42 AM

Ok, thank you.
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#6 Mike Miller

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:14 AM

How does Red fit into this scenario? I read that it is a superior camera, but I have hard time believing it.
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:33 AM

How does Red fit into this scenario? I read that it is a superior camera, but I have hard time believing it.


Hi,

Some comparison tests were recently done by a famous DOP. There was a problem with the Red so he had to repeat the tests . At present the results are not known.

Stephen
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#8 Mike Miller

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 01:16 PM

Hi,

Some comparison tests were recently done by a famous DOP. There was a problem with the Red so he had to repeat the tests . At present the results are not known.

Stephen


There are so many Red cameras out already. Has anyone run complete tests? Manufacturers often give editor free loaners to run tests. I haven't seen any.
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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 02:33 PM

There are so many Red cameras out already. Has anyone run complete tests? Manufacturers often give editor free loaners to run tests. I haven't seen any.


Hi,

There have been many tests to date, results will slowly emerge. I think people keep waiting for Red upgrades before making any firm decisions.

Stephen
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#10 Mike Miller

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 02:45 PM

Hi,

There have been many tests to date


No test results are available?
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#11 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 02:54 PM

No test results are available?


Hi Mike,

If I carry out my own tests they are only really relevant to me, for the purpose of the test. Often the person paying for the tests likes to keep the results to themselves, it's called business.

Stephen
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#12 Mike Miller

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 09:07 AM

I think that if Red claims to have such a high resolution and better debayering algorithm than Sony, Panasonic and Kodak, they need to prove it with independent testing, not just words.
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#13 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 12:58 PM

I think that if Red claims to have such a high resolution and better debayering algorithm than Sony, Panasonic and Kodak, they need to prove it with independent testing, not just words.


Then the only fair test would be to take the same RED image and debayer it using other people's processes. If the point is to prove who has a better debayering algorithm, not who has the better camera, sensor, etc.

As for comparing to other cameras, RED is not alone -- most camera manufacturers are loathe to publish comparison tests to their competitors' products. You don't see Panavision publishing comparisons between the Genesis and the F23, or vice-versa. They'd prefer if outsiders did such a thing, or if no comparisons were made at all. Companies shoot internal comparison tests all the time, and sometimes will show them to customers one-on-one, but not make it available to the general public. There would be too many accusations of bias, etc.

But as for claiming to have a superior products, companies do that all the time, RED is hardly alone at that either. It's up to the customers to determine the truth, caveat emptor and all that.

Saying that RED needs to prove it with independent testing is a contradiction in words -- if they do the testing, how could it be independent?
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#14 Jamie Metzger

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 08:43 PM

Was on a food network shoot the other day as a 1st. The DP chose the F23 over the F35/Red/Genesis because he needed DOF; it was a Green Screen shoot and we needed the focus to carry quite far.

It was a great call on his part. The F23 is a beautiful, wonderful, ergonomic camera. Pleasure to work with!
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