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Will I catch lightning in a bottle, or lose my shirt?


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#1 Tim Pipher

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:10 PM

I've started businesses before when people thought I was crazy. I've proved them wrong -- and proved them right.

When I started a little television station, the first on Hilton Head Island, SC, and moved my 7 1/2 month pregnant wife and four year old son across two states to do it, people said I was nuts. "If starting a TV station on that island was a good idea, someone else would've done it". Luckily, despite some rocky times initially, I caught lightning in a bottle, had a ton of fun, and made out really well financially when I sold the station.

While at the station, I had another idea. Why not build a TV studio to seat 200 people or so, hire a band, fly in celebrities in from NY and LA, and make a Tonight Show style syndicated talk show with soap opera stars as the celebrity guests? That's exactly what I did, renovating an old movie theatre, and starting "The Tim Pipher Show". http://video.google....e...sa=N&tab=wv People said I was crazy, and they were right -- I lost money on that one -- but not my shirt. The bright side of that one was that it was tremendous fun, the facility made my TV station look good and helped me when it came time to sell it, and the contacts I made are useful to this day.

After I sold the TV station, I came across a product I loved -- electric scooters. So I started my own brand, produced and hosted an infomercial, and did a small test run. After the positive results of the infomercial test, (I suspect I was duped by my call center -- many of the initial orders turned out to be bogus), I launched into sizable national infomercial buys, imported 5,000 scooters from a factory in China, and had almost every conceivable problem you can think of. I hated every minute of it. I lost my shirt on that one.

I now come to my latest -- and probably last -- gamble. I'd love to hear your thoughts as to whether you could ever see yourself using any part of my facility or services. I'm trying to make it a business where professionals will be able to take advantage of it whether they want to use all of it, or just want to use a small part of it. I can assure you that it will be priced right -- I want and need it to be used steadily.

Southeastern Studios (www.southeasternstudios.com), will consist of a professionally lit three walled greenscreen cyclorama (40 ft. across the back wall, 20 ft. up the two side walls, and an additional 20 ft. back to the control rooms), three high-end cameras and zoom lenses in a studio configuration (originally RED but now likely to be Panasonic HPX 3000s -- also available for on-location shoots), run through an HD switcher, Ultimatte HD/SD chromakeyer, and Orad 3D Virtual Studio system, and recorded to a Wafian HR 2 and/or HDCAM deck. We'll also have lots of audio equipment, and the latest Final Cut system. We'll also offer camera tracking for live or post compositing through two encoded (and expensive) jibs, with the third camera being tracked with another system, good for hand held etc.

I need people to come from all over the place to use this facility, or allow us to transport it to their locations. I'm fully prepared to offer great pricing to make this happen.

If you're a believer in virtual studio technology, this is a one-of-a-kind set up that will offer live compositing of what appear to be massive million dollar sets, including gorgeous virtual windows with striking ocean views (made with gorgeous video plates), resulting in sets with views that would be difficult to attain in the real world. Whether you believe this virtual set technology works (I believe with the right virtual system, the right virtual set creator, lighting, and Ultimatte, the results are indistinguishable to viewers from the real thing), I can tell you that at least one major cable network is in the midst of precisely re-creating many of their real sets into virtual sets, and assuming that the viewers won't notice the difference.

If you're not a believer in the benefits of virtual sets, you may still want to use the rest of the greenscreen cyclorama, tracking and equipment for traditional greenscreen work. If you don't like our cameras and/or lenses, you could bring your own. If you don't need greenscreen work, maybe you'd have a need for our cameras and lenses on location. We could deliver them right to your set, maybe even in our two very luxurious motorhomes that your cast and crew will love. By the way, your producer, cast and crew will enjoy using the motorhomes at our site too.

This stuff will be priced to, hopefully, make you want to travel here to use it, from anywhere. If you're concerned about the cost of accommodation, don't be. Stay for free in our two luxurious and fully equiped homes by the beach, sleeping 12 cast and/or crew. If you have time, the beach is spectacular, the surfing the best on the east coast (the houses are five minutes from the Sebastian Inlet), and they're right beside a beautiful golf course and major league tennis. Here's a video of the homes: www.BuffHome.com/Rental.wmv

If you're worried about the cost of travel, don't be. Keep in mind our reasonable rates and it's more than worth it. Fly Spirit non-stop from LA to Ft. Lauderdale, even if booked only a few days before, for about $280 round trip. From NY it's less than that. Fly from London to Orlando round trip for $400 (or so), or from Toronto, use your strong Canadian dollar, drive to Buffalo, and fly non-stop into Orlando for $178 round trip on Southwest.

Remember, I'll price this to make it worth your while.

So there's my pitch. If the price is right, can you see wanting to use some or all of my services or facility?

One more question: What will be the best way for me to promote this?

Thanks!
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 01:47 PM

Maybe you should talk to Mike Most, who is also in Florida.
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#3 John Sprung

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 03:18 PM

You might check out the competition. Tim Reid has been in the studio business up in VA for about ten years. If you talk to him, he may remember me from the series "Frank's Place".

http://www.nmstudios.com/

So far we haven't had a need to use his facilities, but we do remember that he's there.

For our purposes, we might consider using the Red, but probably not the XDCams.



-- J.S.
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#4 Tim Pipher

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 04:59 PM

You might check out the competition. Tim Reid has been in the studio business up in VA for about ten years. If you talk to him, he may remember me from the series "Frank's Place".

http://www.nmstudios.com/

So far we haven't had a need to use his facilities, but we do remember that he's there.

For our purposes, we might consider using the Red, but probably not the XDCams.



-- J.S.


Thanks John. Cameras won't be XDCams though -- probably Panasonic HPX3000's -- a very good camera from the reports I've seen.
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#5 Tim Pipher

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 05:10 PM

Maybe you should talk to Mike Most, who is also in Florida.


Thanks David. Do you know what city he's in and/or the name of his company?
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#6 Hal Smith

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 09:58 AM

Thanks David. Do you know what city he's in and/or the name of his company?

Here's the signature he uses on cml-pro:

Mike Most
Chief Technologist
Cineworks Digital Studios
Miami, Fl.
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#7 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 02:53 PM

Wow! I thought I was an entrepreneurial nut job :D

I've seen a lot of bad things happen to operations like the one you are proposing. It's always the same problem, you have high over head, so you need to keep the facility busy all the time. And the production business has huge ups and downs. The economy is so volitile.

The people that I have seen have the best success with this business model are those that have 2-3 corporate clients that come in weekly and use the facility. These "bread and butter" clients pay the bills and keep the lights on. Then you plug the holes with other one time jobs here and there.

Lot's of largish corps do a weekly in house news show that would be good to tape in your facility.

Film work would be spotty, popping up here and there.

Keeping your operation busy will be the biggest challenge.

Personally as a filmmaker I would not use virtual sets, I just don't think they look real. But that's just me.

As for promotion you can take out an ad in Post for starters and use Google ad words, to get into the game quickly.

R,
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#8 Tim Pipher

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:18 PM

Personally as a filmmaker I would not use virtual sets, I just don't think they look real. But that's just me.


Thanks Richard. I was hoping you'd chime in on this, as I've followed your interesting endevours on this forum.

I won't try to win the whether it looks real argument. I'll have to show you when it's up and running. I will say, though, that there's national virtual studio programming running right now that looks fantastic and people don't know it's not real. Like "DVD on TV" on the FX network, and with up and running new installations on CHCH and Global in your neck of the woods. And another national cable network in the US is converting to it right now -- not allowed to tell you which one, but it's also available in Canada.

http://www2.pny.com/...es/Stateof8.pdf

I'm hoping, though, that if people don't want to go virtual, they'll still find my set-up great for traditional greenscreen shoots, with excellent gear right on site.

By the way, I'd love bit of a pipeline of people and equipment between Florida and your neck of the woods -- I spend as much time as possible near Collingwood, Ontario, and my home town of Toronto.
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#9 John Sprung

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:29 PM

Personally as a filmmaker I would not use virtual sets, I just don't think they look real. But that's just me.

Virtual sets are great if you need a bottomless pit or a city on another planet. But the vast majority of what we do happens in ordinary residental or business locations. For that, the big issue I see is that a relatively inexpensive set or practical location gives the actors a sense of reality. Try being "in the moment" when at the moment you're surrounded by a very bright and unpleasant shade of green. Not so bad if you're supposed to be mingling with space aliens, but counterproductive to an intimate bedroom scene.




-- J.S.
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#10 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 05:16 PM

"I won't try to win the whether it looks real argument. I'll have to show you when it's up and running. I will say, though, that there's national virtual studio programming running right now that looks fantastic and people don't know it's not real. Like "DVD on TV" on the FX network, and with up and running new installations on CHCH and Global in your neck of the woods. And another national cable network in the US is converting to it right now -- not allowed to tell you which one, but it's also available in Canada."

I can see how it would work great for any news operation or current events style show, yes.

Drop by any time, I'm in Horseshoe Valley.

R,
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#11 Tim Pipher

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:53 PM

Virtual sets are great if you need a bottomless pit or a city on another planet. But the vast majority of what we do happens in ordinary residental or business locations. For that, the big issue I see is that a relatively inexpensive set or practical location gives the actors a sense of reality. Try being "in the moment" when at the moment you're surrounded by a very bright and unpleasant shade of green. Not so bad if you're supposed to be mingling with space aliens, but counterproductive to an intimate bedroom scene.
-- J.S.


Thanks for your comments John. To play devil's advocate, I'll agree that most people will prefer ordinary residential or business locations for their productions because most scenes take place in ordinary locations. But I don't expect everyone to do every production from my studio. If I get just a small percentage of productions that do need non-practical locations or looks (greenscreen productions), I'll be doing fine.

That said, I am going to push the envelope on ordinary living room, bar room, ballroom, and bedroom scenes. While none of Sin City looked particularly life like due to their preference for the over-all look, I can think of several apartment scenes, hotel room scenes, bar scenes, and a bedroom scene or two that looked real. And in The 300, there were also several intimate indoor scenes between the hero and his wife.

Mixing in real props and real doors with the virtual walls, especially when the walls would naturally be blurred anyway due to a typical movie DOF (in virtual the DOF blurr is accomplished by the system), makes for great practical looking interiors, including huge looking spaces (like a hotel lobby) or a living room with fabulous ocean views -- difficult to accomplish with a real location or a real soundstage. In fact, I recently pitched a network a new soap opera from my studio. They were intrigued with the idea of soap set interiors having beautiful ocean and marina views. Although they've turned it down for now, the virtual set idea got me in the door of a media giant -- a door that I've found difficult to pass without virtual.

Also, for something like a soap where you normally need an enormously expensive and huge facility, virtual sets allow for unlimited sets from the same cyc.

By the way, just to give you a little information on the cameras I am leaning toward (the Panasonic HPX3000 recorded to a Wafian HR 2 deck, or onboard at D5 quality), the reports of shoot offs that I came across on the internet said that the 3000 was significantly sharper than the F900 and HPX2000, and indistinguishable from the F23. If that's true, keys should be really good. Plus, the most realistic virtual set ups I've seen all have another thing I'll have -- an Ultimatte chromakeyer.
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#12 Tim Pipher

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 09:10 PM

I'm in Horseshoe Valley.

R,


Lovely place to be anytime, but especially (for me) in the summer. I know a guy who lives there -- Ron Pegg. I take several trips a year to a little village called Feversham, not far from the Beaver Valley and Thornbury. In fact, I met Toronto producer Damian Lee at the Thornbury pier last summer.

If you need summer scenes for your next production and it's February, I'll be here for you. After all, it was 78 degrees here today.

Or, if you're filming up there in the summer and want to try HD, I'll likely be about 45 minutes away -- I'll drop off what you need.
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#13 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 10:34 PM

"Or, if you're filming up there in the summer and want to try HD"

HD....Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

R,
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#14 Walter Graff

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 10:31 AM

I'd say based on your post that you will loose your shirt. I've watched many studios open over the years, even in NY that simply failed. I can tell you of one right now in Brooklyn with a big name, by a big river that is secretly suffering and looking for other forms of income even though you would think that can't be true. There is far more to opening up and maintaining a successful studio than simply having the 'latest, greatest, equipment" and an attitude that you proved them wrong once before and you might be able to do it again. Frankly it's one of the reasons I said good luck in another post to you and stopped offering thoughts because you made it about finding some magic bullet in a camera over a solid business plan, research into area needs, and all the other things that I have dealt with with successful studios over the years, etc. It takes more work then you'd believe to make a studio successful. Having been a part of Silvercup in NY in the very beginning, now a well established studio, and having seen five others that come to mind in the NY area that have made it, I can tell you it is a lot of puling out of hair, more overhead than you think, and a sales and marketing department that needs a lot of time and money.
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#15 Tim Pipher

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 10:59 AM

I'd say based on your post that you will loose your shirt. I've watched many studios open over the years, even in NY that simply failed. I can tell you of one right now in Brooklyn with a big name, by a big river that is secretly suffering and looking for other forms of income even though you would think that can't be true. There is far more to opening up and maintaining a successful studio than simply having the 'latest, greatest, equipment" and an attitude that you proved them wrong once before and you might be able to do it again. Frankly it's one of the reasons I said good luck in another post to you and stopped offering thoughts because you made it about finding some magic bullet in a camera over a solid business plan, research into area needs, and all the other things that I have dealt with with successful studios over the years, etc. It takes more work then you'd believe to make a studio successful. Having been a part of Silvercup in NY in the very beginning, now a well established studio, and having seen five others that come to mind in the NY area that have made it, I can tell you it is a lot of puling out of hair, more overhead than you think, and a sales and marketing department that needs a lot of time and money.


Thanks Walter. In fairness though, I don't think I have an attitude that just because I've succeeded before against what others say can't be done that I'll automatically succeed again -- I freely admit that sometimes the naysayers were right in my past projects, and as the title of this thread suggests.

That other sub-forum was about cameras, so I didn't get into my business plan nor was I asked about it. I was/am interested in the cameras you suggested, and asked you some follow-up questions that you chose not to answer -- I was afraid I had offended you in some way -- hope I didn't. My engineer recommended the same cameras, in fact, although I would prefer cameras that could be used in studio and in the field.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. Don't think that I don't pay close attention to them. And thanks for your green screen tips that I've read around the web. Just before your post to me I complimented you in another thread about your outdoor greenscreen pick-up scene that you added to your car infomercial -- it was indistinguishable from the original real scenes.
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#16 Walter Graff

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 11:07 AM

Tim I got your email on this system but it doesn't let me send. That should go to all of you who use this board ot send me emials. Don't! The answer is that I don't get offended by much of anything. Why should I? You did nothing wrong. As for my comments about business plan etc, I meant overall not just realted to the camera forum question. Look at the post you made and 90 percent of it is a story about your past. That's great but this story should be about your goal, not a buffer for failure. I have been a big part of many studios as both consultant, cleint, employee, etc so know what it takes. You don't sound like a dummy so I am sure you are doing the right things. Do what you think is best, give it all, and I wish you the best of luck.
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#17 Tim Pipher

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 11:32 AM

Tim I got your email on this system but it doesn't let me send. That should go to all of you who use this board ot send me emials. Don't! The answer is that I don't get offended by much of anything. Why should I? You did nothing wrong. As for my comments about business plan etc, I meant overall not just realted to the camera forum question. Look at the post you made and 90 percent of it is a story about your past. That's great but this story should be about your goal, not a buffer for failure. I have been a big part of many studios as both consultant, cleint, employee, etc so know what it takes. You don't sound like a dummy so I am sure you are doing the right things. Do what you think is best, give it all, and I wish you the best of luck.


Thanks again Walter.

By the way, I didn't send you an e-mail -- maybe you have that automatic thing on this site enabled that automatically e-mails you posts about certain topics.
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#18 Walter Graff

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 11:35 AM

Sorry, I was worng. It was not you. I get a bunch of emails through this board but can't respond to them cause the system doesn't seem to work properly. Just checked and that last one I thought was you was not you.
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#19 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 03:54 PM

Wow! I thought I was an entrepreneurial nut job :D

I've seen a lot of bad things happen to operations like the one you are proposing. It's always the same problem, you have high over head, so you need to keep the facility busy all the time. And the production business has huge ups and downs. The economy is so volitile.

The people that I have seen have the best success with this business model are those that have 2-3 corporate clients that come in weekly and use the facility. These "bread and butter" clients pay the bills and keep the lights on. Then you plug the holes with other one time jobs here and there.

Lot's of largish corps do a weekly in house news show that would be good to tape in your facility.

Film work would be spotty, popping up here and there.

Keeping your operation busy will be the biggest challenge.

Personally as a filmmaker I would not use virtual sets, I just don't think they look real. But that's just me.

As for promotion you can take out an ad in Post for starters and use Google ad words, to get into the game quickly.

R,


I agree with most of Richard's post. I would add that the equipment rental/ studio space rental business is incredibly hard to keep up with. Why? Because there is always something new out there that people want. So if you have HPX 3000 cameras, people will want Red. If you buy Red cameras people will want F23's, etc.
Having worked at film/ video rental houses for ten years, that is the story of our lives. If you have the bread and butter acct's that Richard talks about above, it is a little easier to stay afloat and keep up with technology. But honestly I just can't even believe how fast technology is advancing. And being that these cameras are not cheap, just how many cameras can you afford to turn around or to have idling there waiting to be rented out. That happens everywhere, but small markets are particularly prone to be terrible. Rental houses in LA have to constantly buy the best, newest gear and can't make much on them because there are SO MANY rental houses renting the same gear, ultimately driving the rental prices to ridiculously low amounts. And so, for that same reason, people that go to a smaller town on production most of the times bring the gear from LA, Miami, or NY, etc.

I am not saying it is impossible to do. I just think is very hard, because the competition is so fierce and large amounts of money are required to invest and upkeep with constantly evolving technology as well as just keeping the facility open through the lean times that would surely come. I hate to sound pessimistic, I just think the chances of surviving WITHOUT your bread and butter all-year-round accounts are very slim.

As an idea, maybe talking to your local/ state government about any potential subsidies/ partnerships they may have to open these facilities. Here in New Mexico, film productions have whipped politics to a frenzy and Gov. Richardson has made it possible for some people to get a state loan for partial funds to open a $100 million + film studio facility through a State Legislature bill. I know some other states, such as North Carolina, Louisiana and NY are very aggressively following in the heels of NM with the subsidies/ loans/ tax rebates to attract film bussiness.

Good luck.
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#20 Tim Pipher

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 07:51 PM

I agree with most of Richard's post. I would add that the equipment rental/ studio space rental business is incredibly hard to keep up with. Why? Because there is always something new out there that people want. So if you have HPX 3000 cameras, people will want Red. If you buy Red cameras people will want F23's, etc.
Having worked at film/ video rental houses for ten years, that is the story of our lives. If you have the bread and butter acct's that Richard talks about above, it is a little easier to stay afloat and keep up with technology. But honestly I just can't even believe how fast technology is advancing. And being that these cameras are not cheap, just how many cameras can you afford to turn around or to have idling there waiting to be rented out. That happens everywhere, but small markets are particularly prone to be terrible. Rental houses in LA have to constantly buy the best, newest gear and can't make much on them because there are SO MANY rental houses renting the same gear, ultimately driving the rental prices to ridiculously low amounts. And so, for that same reason, people that go to a smaller town on production most of the times bring the gear from LA, Miami, or NY, etc.

I am not saying it is impossible to do. I just think is very hard, because the competition is so fierce and large amounts of money are required to invest and upkeep with constantly evolving technology as well as just keeping the facility open through the lean times that would surely come. I hate to sound pessimistic, I just think the chances of surviving WITHOUT your bread and butter all-year-round accounts are very slim.

As an idea, maybe talking to your local/ state government about any potential subsidies/ partnerships they may have to open these facilities. Here in New Mexico, film productions have whipped politics to a frenzy and Gov. Richardson has made it possible for some people to get a state loan for partial funds to open a $100 million + film studio facility through a State Legislature bill. I know some other states, such as North Carolina, Louisiana and NY are very aggressively following in the heels of NM with the subsidies/ loans/ tax rebates to attract film bussiness.

Good luck.


Thanks Saulie. Those are some really good points to ponder.

I'll need 3 or 4 days per month of full studio rentals at a discounted price to hold my own, and 6 to 8 days to really thrive. You and Richard are right about the core clients, and I think I can get them. Plus, I'll be pitching my own projects -- maybe I'll be one of my own core clients.

You're also right about the expense of keeping up with the latest/greatest technology. My thinking is that starting off with 2008 leading edge equipment will buy me some time. 2003 Vipers and F950's still have a great deal of utility. If things go well, there will be money to keep up with the latest equipment. If things don't go well, I won't need to.

As far as competition, of course I'll have it. But their aren't a ton of cycs this size offering this easy access, in Florida. There's one other HD 3D virtual studio system in Florida, but it's government owned and not open to the public. In fact, I only know of only one other in the United States that's open to outsiders, none in California, and only a handful in the world. There will be a good number of REDs around in Florida if my customers want them for regular greenscreen work (I have three reserved but may not be able to take them due to their lack of HDSDI outputs that are necessary for virtual studio production, but have associates close by who will deliver theirs to my studio when needed), but there are currently very few HPX3000s (or F23's etc.).

The state of Florida provides sizable incentives to produce here, but won't help with the start-up costs. If you meet the criteria, anything you spend with me and the rest of your production in Florida will generate 15% cash back to you.

I'm also hoping European TV producers will take advantage of what I'll be offering. Virtual studio production is much more prevalent in Europe (and Asia too), but it's my understanding that they don't have any HD virtual systems there that are open to the public. With their strong currencies (euro & pound) and possible Florida incentives, they could save a lot of money coming here. Plus, lots of them really enjoy Florida and are quite comfortable here.

Thanks for your input Saulie.

Tim
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