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Intervelometers or Super 8 Cameras


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#1 Joe Taylor

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 06:49 PM

Hello All

Would love to step up my time-lapse trade from 35mm to Super 8. Don't know beans about Super 8 cameras though. I've inquired and gotten great responses about high-end Super 8 cameras with time-lapse and importantly time-exposure abilities.

I have a Beaulieu S2008 that has a manual single frame jobber. Has there ever been an intervelomer made for this camera?

Where is a good web site that has great descriptions about Super 8 cameras with good pictures?

Any good coffee table like books?
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#2 jacob thomas

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 07:18 PM

Hello All

Would love to step up my time-lapse trade from 35mm to Super 8. Don't know beans about Super 8 cameras though. I've inquired and gotten great responses about high-end Super 8 cameras with time-lapse and importantly time-exposure abilities.

I have a Beaulieu S2008 that has a manual single frame jobber. Has there ever been an intervelomer made for this camera?

Where is a good web site that has great descriptions about Super 8 cameras with good pictures?

Any good coffee table like books?


I think I've seen a beaulieu intervalometer mentioned here but I have yet to ever see one for sale anywhere, I would guess for the price it would fetch you could probably get a Nizo/Bauer/Eumig... If you wanted the "best" time exposure camera maybe look out for a Leicina Special and the electronic control module (quite often on ebay).

Super 8 Wiki is not bad and has collected most of the information from previous encyclopedic websites.

Check out Jurgen Lossau's book for more info and your coffee table. "Movie Cameras: the international guide"
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#3 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:18 AM

An externally-housed intervalometer accessory...

was made for the Beaulieu 4008-series that enables its automatic timer and time exposure features. This was an aftermarket solution not originally offered when that camera was produced. It was build in small quantities (the Beaulieu 6008 S with built-in intervalometer was just new then, and the 4008-series hence fell slightly out of favour) for an accordingly high price, and is very much in demand and rather rare. This situation effectively robs the 4008-series of the T and B capabilities.

One was once offered by Ritter (the German Beaulieu distributor) in 1994 and went for nearly a thousand Deutsche Mark (I think it was 980,- DM but I don't have that 2nd hand equipment sales booklet at hand right now to verify my claim). The waiting list for prospective buyers was pages long, and when I signed up to that list, Herr Wagener of Ritter kindly remarked that I should not expect one in my lifetime.

They are out there, and the more elderly German Beaulieu film amateurs pass away or give up filming, the more will come to the market (if their children don't throw the gear away).

The Beaulieu 2008-series was the first Super 8 camera design that came out of Romorantin and lacks various features and options that the succeeding 4008-series had. Amongst that the left-hand motor-shaft/sync-sound socket into which the intervalometer accessory would plug (the device drives the transport mechanism externally through mechanical linkage powered by an external power-source/motor combo)
So that 4008-series intervalometer accessory I am talking about is only working with the ZM II, ZM IV and 5008-series, NOT your 2008-series (sorry to break the bad news), the 3008-series and evidently not with the 1008- and 6/7/9008-series.



As regarding literature:

- content-wise, the best Super 8 related publications are "The Super 8 Book" and "Independent Filmmaking" by Lenny Lipton. Although written in the 1970s, they have astonishingly not aged and are an incredible treasure esp. regarding cine-gear descriptions and filming set-ups. It even covers Telecine (Lipton being far ahead of its time) but obviously doesn't cover DI post chains. But they are great for what you are looking for. They are difficult to track down second-hand, but regularly come up on Amazon Marketplace. An investment is most certainly worth every dollar and dime.

- picture and completion-wise, the best Super 8 related publications, as Jacob said, are the two books by Jürgen Lossau. One coffee-table book with great historical/nostalgic reviews and discussion of the most prominent cameras of each manufacturer. The other one, a smaller reference catalogue, pretty much covers every Super 8 camera ever made, with complete technographical listing. There are a couple of data omissions and factual errors, but considering the sheer amount of content and with regards to the fact that Jürgen is primarily a collector and less a Super 8 filmmaker, these can be forgiven, especially for people who are in the know anyway. Great large-size colour photography in the big one, dice-format B&W pictures in the smaller one.
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#4 Joe Taylor

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:15 PM

Hello!!

Thanks for all the great info. Aboce and beyond in help.

Yeah, I figure I'll have to scrap the Beaulie (sp.) and get a camera with built in time-lapse (exposure features.)

I'm sort of confused which cameras have true time-exposure abilities that are controlled, i.e. I set the exposure duration. It seems that they work simply by exposing until they have soaked up enough light, not the best method for tricky shots.

Thank you for all your help.
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#5 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:38 PM

May Alex please correct my if I am wrong about the two Eumig cameras, but you are right about the "soaking up" practices for time exposures with the Super 8 cameras I suggested here.

The only camera that allows you to preset the time exposure period (as I believe you want it) would be the Nizo professional (as I mentioend above) and it's lesser lens'd siblings, the Nizo 801 (macro) and Nizo 561 (don't go further down the series).
Alex wrote about that here.

It's automatic timer (for time lapse) has a continuous range from 6 fps (at /8 sec) to 1 fpm, and the time exposure feature under 'autom. B' which demands coupling with the variable shutter - either for B with "soacks up" or with T for presetting the exposure time.

Download the manual from Bjarne's website to check the function out in detail:
http://www.super8.no/manuals.html

But I would say with the Bauer A 512 "only" "soaking up", the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II handcapped by the lack of the accessory, the Nizo professional is your best shot apart from the Leitz Leicina Special with needs also an accessory (there are two threads about that on the 1 and 2nd page of this sub-forum, clearly named in thread title as discussing that. Click them out!)

There are a couple of very good Nizo professionals on international-sales eBay right now, BTW...
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#6 Joe Taylor

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:34 PM

Excellent Michael,

I think there is a Nizo in my future.
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#7 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 06:19 PM

Nizos are probably the most tricked out camera you can get. I have a 481macro and a 561, and have not experienced any difference in image quality. I prefer my 481Macro because it's a little smaller, has Macro, and it's the black model! The camera body is pretty compact, and in my opinion the 801 or professional make the model a little clunky with the big lens on what can be a very small and loaded model.
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#8 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 10:24 AM

The problem with any Nizo big-bodied camera like the Nizo 481 (macro), Nizo 561 (macro) and Nizo 801 (macro) OTHER than the Nizo professional (i.e. the Nizo professional does NOT have these somewhat problematic issues I am going to write about!) is threefold:

- all these cameras need separate PX-type button cells to power the exposure meter in addition to the six AA batteries which are housed in a twin-screwed battery container for powering the camera.
Although you can easily get these PX-type button cells, doublechecking on two power sources is less elegant than having a one-for-all solution as the Nizo professional does. This is especially so if you have the camera click away its days and hours for time lapse or time exposure cinematography and can't have one of the power sources die on you ? as will happen at the most unfortunate time, according to Murphy's laws :) .

- in order to access the tripod threads on the camera base, you need to swing back the handgrip. But that cuts the power supply connection from the battery container in the handgrip to the camera body. You need a bridging cable that Nizo offered as accessory to re-establish the power supply connection. If you don't have that (and I know that a guy called T-Scan has one, so no problem for that person ;) ), you are pretty much robbed of those tripod threads. You can of course use the secondary tripod thread on the handgrip base, but especially for shots requiring absolute steadiness (such as time lapse and time exposure), that one isn't as sturdy as it should by. The Nizo professional has the bridging cable built into it, and can use all tripod threads without any problems at once. And the 3/8" tripod thread in addition to the conventional 1/4" is very neat indeed.

- I agree that the visual difference between the Schneider Macro-Variogon 1:1,8 / 7-56mm on the Nizo 561 macro and the Schneider Macro-Variogon 1:1,8 / 8-48mm on the Nizo 481 macro is negligible, but the first one has a more useful focal range, especially in the wide-angle position (but it compromises on size, and that seems to be more important to you, and rightly so!). Nevertheless, the Schneider Macro-Variogon 1:1,8 / 7-80mm found on the Nizo 801 (macro) is visible better. And those found on the Nizo professional were produced separately from the regular production run at Schneider Kreuznach and received a special multi-coating treatment by Schott. The image is visibly crisper and color reproduction more neutral and according to our experience, it is one of the top four lenses in the Super 8 format.

Anthony, please not to get on the wrong footing: I have nothing against your 481, just in case that came across like that, but there was a reason why I specifically recommended the Nizo professional for Joe bearing in mind for what he is going to use it for and what he used to quality-wise from shooting 35. Some argue that really good looking time lapse cinematography, and without a doubt real time exposure cinematography is the last bastion of cine-film. I disagree with that, as there are many more bastions to pick a cine-film camera over a RED, but those applications are most easily achieved with cine-film, and always come out beautifully, so using the best available tools to represent that capability was the rationale from which I argued from.

Was your bridging cable included with the Nizo 481 macro when you purchased it? If so, lucky you :D !

(every time I see a Nizo big-bodied camera, even the Nizo small-bodied or sound cameras, I start lusting after them. But my equipment is set and I can't afford a newcomer)
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#9 Will Montgomery

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 11:37 AM

Kodak made a camera called the "Analyst" which was a timelapse only camera designed for surveillance and analyizing things that took a long time. Really cheap little cameras with weak lenses and all plastic gears so they tend to break, but you might be able to pick one up for $20 or so. They have a larger range than most built-in intervolometers.

Another option is a digital SLR with an intervolometer. As long as you don't do a ton of this, you could get a string of HD (or higher) resolution images you can put together in After Effects for an amazing HD movie. Only problem is the life of the shutters on these cameras, but it looks really good.

EDIT: Ha! I just saw this post a couple headlines down talking about the same camera...

http://www.cinematog...showtopic=27557
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#10 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 11:51 AM

EDIT


:lol:


Hey, please repost your info and knowledge about the Kodak Analyst there, as we discuss it's reliability and usage and potential motor problems with the Kodak MFX. Your knowledge comes in handy. Thank you for doing so, Sir!
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