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ABSOLUTE BEST TIME-LAPSE Super 8


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#1 Joe Taylor

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:05 PM

Okay, I thoght I had it narrowed down to the Nizo model for time-lapspe with time-contolled features, but then there are some serious issues regarding tie downs with the handgrip. This could be a serious problem with for me.

So you on the know.

**WHAT IS THE BEST, WITH MONEY NOT AN ISSUE< HANDS BEST SUPER 8 CAMERA AVAILABLE. CONTROL OF TIME-EXPOSURES IS AN ABSOLUTE***

Thank Your all
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 11:20 PM

Okay, I thoght I had it narrowed down to the Nizo model for time-lapspe with time-contolled features, but then there are some serious issues regarding tie downs with the handgrip. This could be a serious problem with for me.

So you on the know.

**WHAT IS THE BEST, WITH MONEY NOT AN ISSUE< HANDS BEST SUPER 8 CAMERA AVAILABLE. CONTROL OF TIME-EXPOSURES IS AN ABSOLUTE***

Thank Your all


How can you not like a retractable handle?
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#3 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 03:48 AM

The average Nizo has a lot of settings. What are you looking for?
Rick
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#4 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 08:37 AM

Here is a link to some time lapse I did in Sept. in Iceland with my
Nizo Pro and Ekta 64T. Home lab and poor uplaoad but this
would probably be the best camera to acheive your needs.

Edited by Jean Beaudoin, 05 December 2007 - 08:38 AM.

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#5 Glenn Brady

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:58 AM

If money's no object, why not consider a Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 camera with Tobin TTL motor?
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#6 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 01:43 PM

The average Nizo has a lot of settings. What are you looking for?
Rick


I think he's looking for a camera that has a different style of handgrip. Many (or is it all?) of the Nizo's have retractable handles however.
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#7 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 02:28 PM

Joe, having replied to most of your questions re. your issues in detail, I feel sorry that you still feel insecure about making an informed buying decision, and that hence I have some responsibillity to assist you further.
In that respect, I would like to ask you what your issues with the handgrip are??

As I said in previous posts, if you require a camera that allows pre-setting of the exposure time period for the actual time exposures (T-style function which is unique to the Nizo professional in Super 8 - read the manual here), plus a "soak-up" B-style exposure automatic (as only found in A 512 built-in plus 4008 & Leicina via accessories), plus a floating intervalometer for time lapse with a reputable lens (actually, one of the top 4 lenses for the format), I don't think you have many choices in the cartridged segment but to choose a Nizo professional :huh: .

Also: the handgrip I problematised in this post here discusses all the Nizo big-bodied cameras but clearly states that the Nizo professional doesNOT have those issues. It is the only Nizo big-bodied cameras that does not have these issues!

Finally, if you use a serious tripod like a Sachtler head or a Miller or Ronford-Baker, the Nizo professional is the only one offering you 3/8" and 1/4" threads. So unless "tying down" means something non-cinematographic (mounting it with strings on a helicopter blade or selotaping it on a horse's back), the the Nizo pro is best equipped to deal with 16 or 35mm-conform grip!

Other than the Nizo professional, you only have the selection at hand that Alex and myself talked you through here.

As you remember from a previous post, I watched your excellent footage at YouTube. I can quite decidedly state that I could easily replicate every shot with either the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II accessory, the Nizo professional, and even the Bauer A 512 (eveb though it lack T-style). I own all those cameras and have worked in time lapse and time exps on such shots (just in the Swiss Alps, not Bryce Canyon or Monument Valley - hey, we should swap locations for once...)
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#8 Joe Taylor

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:34 PM

Hello Michael

I had read your sort of rant against Nizo's and their problems (seperate battery packs for different features) and with tripod mounting issues and the needing for jumpers and such to allow them to mount. I assumed that the Professional was one of those witht the screwy handle. If this is not the case with the Nizo Professional then I take back what I said. It's just that the Nizo sound about as ideal as any camera made for the sort of time-lapse work I hope to shoot with.

And thank you for you kind words with my film "Dead Lonesome." Once I scrape the bucks together for a RED (as long as they build the intervelometer in the future model as they clim they ill) you'll find when applying my craft world wide (with a souped up Super 8 in tow.) You can get some of the greatest footge withat that little frame and no amount of digitl mumbo-jumbo can create and it's real-- organic.

Some one mentioned the Bolex H8. I considered it and it would top my list, but where am I going to get the film? What if I wanted to shoot the new Super 8 negatives through it. No go... right?

Thanks for everybodys help. You guys/gals run a hell of a forum with none of that uptight elietism (sp.) found elsewhere.

Just joking.... sort of.
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#9 Glenn Brady

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 04:43 PM

Some one mentioned the Bolex H8. I considered it and it would top my list, but where am I going to get the film? What if I wanted to shoot the new Super 8 negatives through it. No go... right?


DS8 film is available from http://members.aol.c...ohnSchwind.html and http://www.chambless...atalog/film.htm among others. Color negative isn't available to my knowledge, but you hadn't indicated that was a requirement.
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#10 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 06:04 PM

Hello Michael

I had read your sort of rant against Nizo's and their problems

[...]

Thanks for everybodys help. You guys/gals run a hell of a forum with none of that uptight elietism (sp.) found elsewhere.


Aiaiaiaiaia, Joe! Hoopla!

Sorry, the post you are talking about was absolutely not meant as a rant, not even sort of a rant, and if it could be read like that, then I am both very sorry yet feel misunderstood :D . I just pointed out some "...problems..." which are crucial to your work. Nizos are excellent cameras, and I would choose any Nizo over many of the usual suspects filmshooters use. I just wanted to point out that if you want elite gear for professional results (as your films show) and hence to go for a Nizo big-bodied camera, then it should be the Nizo professional as the other ones have problems that might cause issues for someone who requires top lenses, non-nosense operability, and best componentry, and integration with 35mm gear. And going for a 481 or 561 would cuase problems of that kind.

Had you read my post carefully and remarked the bold and italic highlights I used, then, my good friend, you would have saved yourself a lot of worries and the forum this thread :P !!

If you have any other questions, then please feel free to come back (as long as they havn't already been covered :D )

yours,-Michael



P.S.: Beware, some monkeys on eBay sell Nizo 481 or 561 under the misleading Heading "Nizo 561 professional super 8 camera" ? that is not a true Nizo professional! THe Nizo pro has as full name Nizo professional written on the front, the manual and the box. So be very careful (more careful then when you read my post ;) )
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#11 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 06:38 PM

I think the 01 series Nizo cameras (such as 481, 561, and 801) are called professional because they have the time-exposure function with the red handle slide over switch.
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#12 Joe Taylor

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 11:00 PM

Please! Please! I meant nothing but praise for all of your help-- Michael, you get the most kudos. Your replies to everybodies questions are nothing but sincere and are beyond helpful.

"Rant" was an ugly description. What I meant was you seemed to have some "reservations." I guess I used it because I had/still have my money stuffed in a jar for that Nizo Pro. I suppose I'm grossly in need of one of those film-school-like edcumactations in the Super 8 video trade and could use a sharp word and a swift boot to get me started proper.
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#13 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:46 AM

Naah, forget about it, Joe ;)

I think the 01 series Nizo cameras (such as 481, 561, and 801) are called professional because they have the time-exposure function with the red handle slide over switch.


Naah, Alex, these are just eBay muppets who know that people pay the most bucks for the Nizo professional and that they will only search for that camera by search term. So in order to attract potential buyers to their almost equally equipped (variable shutter & intervalometer are indeed identical across the series, but the tripod base, single power supply, handgrip powerbridging and above all the unqiue multi-coated version (!!!!!!) of the Schneider 7-80mm lens are features available with the Nizo professional ONLY ) and similar-looking 801, 481 or 561 or indeed S80, S48 or S56 (which is the preceeding generation), they just "include" the 'professional' reference in the auction headline so that people who don't know or don't read well or don't doublecheck the pictures fall for that and buy it. And its even legally watertight, as they can claim that they meant the 'professional' as adjective (as in Nizo 801 professional-super-8-camera) and not as part of the noun that is part of the name 'Nizo professional' (especially as the p-word in the name of the camera is in small and not capital letters!).

Only where Nizo professional is written on the front of the camera above the lens, next to the time exposures lightmeter glass dome behind the blackened-out CdS-field, you will also find a real 'Nizo professional'!
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#14 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 05:27 PM

Actually, Joe, before you buy on eBay, consider this alternative here at http://www.super8camera-shop.com .

I know that forum members bought cameras there to great and repeated satisfaction. Although this is not an endorsement to buy there (I havn't and won't and would not recommend it unless I had, and by the way other products are available and I disclaim to have never met anyone loosely associated with that shop, in fact I even don't know what Super 8 is, never heard of it, blabla disclaimer bla...), you can use the pictures there to familiarise youself witht he Nizo big-bodied cameras (or Nizo silent cameras as they call it a bit confusingly, as there were also the Nizo small-bodied cameras which were silent too yet which they call 'compact', but anyhow, I loose the sentence's plot) and check out some near-mint pros and other cameras that I would recommend for general purpose (they pretty much specialise in what I experienced as top-level stuff).

:D
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#15 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:30 AM

The best timelapse features I know on a super8 camera has the BAUER A512 and A508 as it has aditionally to the normal timelapsefeature like on the Nizos also a longtime exposure feature, that allowes you to make timelapse shots in nearly total darkness, as it simply exposes as long as it needs, and then it switches to the next frame. Normally you can shoot only 10 sec. with this mode, but if you block the 10sec. counterwheel with a piece of adhesive tape or something else you can shoot as long as you want. The more light the camera gets the faster becomes the framerate.
there seems also to be an EUMIG camera with the same features, but I don't know this one.


Daniel
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#16 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:33 AM

The BAUER A512 has the Schneider 6-70 lens...
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#17 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 03:12 PM

Just to avoid any further confusion for poor Joe Taylor here (oh, I feel like soooo responsible for you, Joe :P ):

Daniel, what you probably won't be able to know or havn't noticed because you did not look at the hyperlinked background story in this thread in post #7:

The Bauer A 512 had already been eliminated because Joe needs a intervalometer with variable time-lapse but also a time exposure function that has both B ("soaking up" light, as he put it, which the A 512 has and shares with the Nizo professional and any Nizo big-bodied camera) and T with which Joe can pre-set the time exposure period, which only the Nizo professional (and also other Nizo big-bodied cameras but with other compromises and weaker lenses that disqualify usage for Joe) has uniquely built-in in the Super 8 sector.

I agree, however, that the Schneider 12x6mm on the A 512 produced crisper images than the Schneider 11x7mm on the Nizo professional, and both are in my experience the top 3 and top 4 lenses in this format. However, if you need T, then the Nizo professional it has to be!

Also, IIRC, the time period counter on the A 512 runs for 12sec @ 18/fps, and has a '12' marking at starting point ? at least mine has...
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 11:14 PM

Naah, forget about it, Joe ;)

Naah, Alex, these are just eBay muppets who know that people pay the most bucks for the Nizo professional and that they will only search for that camera by search term. So in order to attract potential buyers to their almost equally equipped (variable shutter & intervalometer are indeed identical across the series, but the tripod base, single power supply, handgrip powerbridging and above all the unqiue multi-coated version (!!!!!!) of the Schneider 7-80mm lens are features available with the Nizo professional ONLY ) and similar-looking 801, 481 or 561 or indeed S80, S48 or S56 (which is the preceeding generation), they just "include" the 'professional' reference in the auction headline so that people who don't know or don't read well or don't doublecheck the pictures fall for that and buy it. And its even legally watertight, as they can claim that they meant the 'professional' as adjective (as in Nizo 801 professional-super-8-camera) and not as part of the noun that is part of the name 'Nizo professional' (especially as the p-word in the name of the camera is in small and not capital letters!).

Only where Nizo professional is written on the front of the camera above the lens, next to the time exposures lightmeter glass dome behind the blackened-out CdS-field, you will also find a real 'Nizo professional'!


Since the Nizo three digit version represents a step-up from the Nizo two digit version, would pre-professional be a fair term for the 481, 561, & 801?
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#19 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:08 AM

Since the Nizo three digit version represents a step-up from the Nizo two digit version, would pre-professional be a fair term for the 481, 561, & 801?


Well, yes and no. I would say the fairest use of the term professional in any way for the Nizo big-bodied cameras would be to only use it for the Nizo professional when only that one model, namely the 'Nizo professional' is meant.

The problem with the term "pre-professional" you suggest, Alex, is, that the Nizo professional was no longer officially available while cameras that you would refer to as "pre-professional", such as the 801 macro, where actually still available and even produced new. So the chronological moniker 'pre' here could be misleading.

The camera generations go like that:

  • Nizo S 48, Nizo S 56, Nizo S 80
  • Nizo S 480, Nizo S 560, Nizo S 800
  • Nizo 481, Nizo 561, Nizo 801
  • Nizo professional (basically a Nizo 801 macro before that one came to market, BUT with UNIQUE advanced developments NOT implemented in the following generation, such as bespoke MC-lens, power-supply, power-bridging, used componentry etc!!)
  • Nizo 481 macro, Nizo 561 macro, Nizo 801 macro

Now, the Nizo professional was the most expensive Nizo ever offered until the Nizo 6080 came along 5 years later in 1982. It was produced in amounts and then stored, meaning that although officially no longer built and sold, it remained available through sales channels well when the three-digit-macro-generation was the only generation advertised in brochures!
(by the way, the same became true for the Nizo 801 macro. Although stopped to be produced in 1979, it remained advertised even in the 1982 catalogue of Nizo as the only remaining silent camera, well many years after production had stopped.)

So I would stick to the term Nizo big-bodied cameras and then be exact which camera is meant from the above simplified generation list, and only mean and name the Nizo professional model specifically. It must have the MC-'d Schneider 11x7mm and the full name 'Nizo professinal' on the front to qualify as such.

Other lines where the Nizo small-bodied cameras (Nizo compact, Nizo 116, Nizo 148 (macro), Nizo 156 (macro)), and of course the Nizo sound cameras (Nizo 1048 sound & 2056 sound, Nizo 3048 & 3056, Nizo 4056 & 4080, Nizo 6056 and 6080)
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#20 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 05:06 PM

I've been looking for a 35mm time-exposure rig and I walk into a place in the San Fernando Valley that specializes in all kinds of camera gear, and they also had some super-8 cameras. I had a choice between the Nizo 1048 and the Nizo 2056, I tried them both and in this instance the 1048 was quieter. In this instance the 1048 at 24FPS was quieter than the 2056 was at 18 FPS. (however the 1048 has less filming speed options and a slightly smaller zoom ratio)

On the shelf was a Black Nizo Professional. I really wanted it, but I had in mind to buy only one camera so I bought the 1048. Then you Mr. Lehnert waxed poetic about the Nizo Professional and I began to have second thoughts. $225 dollars seemed a reasonably low price.

So I saved up some dough from a recent job and I bought that one as well. You are to blame Mr. Lehnert.
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