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M2 v's P + S Technik 35mm adaptors


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#1 Jacqueline Donaldson

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:38 AM

Hi,

has anyone compared these two adaptors - I need to buy an adaptor for our HVX soon - I was going to buy the M2 - but it sounds like it eats alot of light, and flips the image, but then again some people here have said the image is grogeous?!

I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the good & bad qualities of each of these systems.

Thanks,

Jacqueline
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#2 John Brawley

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:49 AM

Hi,

has anyone compared these two adaptors - I need to buy an adaptor for our HVX soon - I was going to buy the M2 - but it sounds like it eats alot of light, and flips the image, but then again some people here have said the image is grogeous?!

I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the good & bad qualities of each of these systems.

Thanks,

Jacqueline


Hi Jacquline.

Are you aware of the VERY substantial cost differences between these two adaptors. ? the p+s is a lot more expensive than the camera you're putting it on. Are you really considering buying either of them ?

jb
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#3 Jess Haas

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 12:40 AM

From a usability standpoint the P+S blows the M2 out of the water. There is of course a substantial price difference.

~Jess
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#4 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 01:24 AM

Yes, the PS Technik is the obvious best choice, both are a good light loss, but the PS technik is a solid Unit, flips the Image, and is more suitable for film style accessories, although the M2 does offer their own Follow Focus units.

If money is no object, go with the German made adapter. If you need a good cheap adapter for your own personal or small business stuff, the M2 is good.
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#5 Jacqueline Donaldson

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 01:03 AM

Yeah, admittedly I hadn't done much research on the P + S price wise as I was just looking into the M2, but OMG it is pricey. We can afford it, but if we buy it - we're not buying anything else for a year!!

So I'm still looking at the M2. & follow focus system. We really want to buy as there are only a couple of rental places here in HK and they don't seem to have specialtiy items like this - I can't even find a place to rent a glide cam system...

Any advice on using the M2 ?? I also heard about another adaptor system around - it was mentioned in one of the threads - but I've lost it - anyone know about that one?

Jac...
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#6 Tim Terner

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 01:39 AM

Three here perhaps worth looking at
http://www.letus35.com/
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/
http://www.redrockmicro.com/
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#7 Ryan Patrick OHara

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 08:29 PM

Don't forget the brevis

http://www.cinevate....bsite/index.php

Edited by Ryan Patrick OHara, 14 December 2007 - 08:30 PM.

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#8 Jacqueline Donaldson

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:13 AM

Thanks for all the info - I've checked out all the systems listed and it looks like they are all around the same price with similar features except the M2 & P + S Technik - is there anywhere online I can view footage to compare the images from all of these systems?

It also seems like alot of people are using still 35mm Nikon lenses with these adaptors. Anyone got any opinions on whether it's worth picking up a set of the older manual focus lenses to use with one of these adaptors and the HVX.

I am hoping to use some cooke S4's for shooting a feature with this cam & a 35 adaptor, testing in Feb - what adapter would get the best out of these lenses?

I like the sound of the M2 System as it comes together in a package including the follow focus etc... but there seems to be lots of light loss, i've heard rumers of it going out of alignement and maybe some vignetting and it's a bit pricey.

The Brevis looks ok with their own bundle, follow focus system and mattbox package still costing less that the M2, but haven't seen the results of any footage shot.

Heard really good things about the Letus 35mm extreme - any comments Pro's & Cons? It's looks incredibly simple system.

Sg Pro? Looked at site - couldn't really get a feel for it - will do more research.

Any comments or opinons om the above systems would be a great help.

Happy Holidays -

Jacqueline
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#9 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:45 AM

The Letus35 Flip shoots nice images from what I have seen, has interchangeable lens mounts AND flips the image upright for you before it records it. So right now, the Letus35 Flip, at $1,500 is your best bet (IMHO). It also has less light-loss than the P+S adapter. I think P+S is at around 2 stops of light loss, Letus 35 Extreme is at 1/2 stop of light loss... way better than the P+S adapter, and about $5,000 less than than the P+S Adapter.

Here is a quote from the Letus Website:

The industry's new leader in light efficiency with only 1/2 stop of light loss for the whole adapter -- The image is upright, and yes, you read it correctly-- this is earth-shattering to the whole Indie Film Industry! Aside from its offer of the leading technology in light efficiency, it also beats other adapters in every aspect, regardless of their price range. It offers the following features:

* Highest optical grade achromatic lens custom-made for this specific adapter
* Custom condenser specially tailored for this adapter to get the best possible picture quality
* New and improved Ground Glass
* Beautiful film-look bokeh
* Absolutely no vignetting
* Best edge-to-edge sharpness in the industry
* Stunningly beautiful image colors
* Casing milled from solid aluminum.
* Using prism with proprietary Image Orientation Correction technology (IOC) that makes the image up-right
* A sleek On/Off indicator with LED
* Battery is fully enclosed and secured by 2 magnets for ease of replacement during a shoot
* Virtually quiet vibration system that will not interfere with on-camera microphone
* Alignment is a breeze with the new, improved 72mm ring design
* Professional finish and look
* Comes with your choice of one free mount (Canon FD, Nikon Locking, Canon EF locking)


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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 01:02 AM

Hi Landon,

Have you any personal experience of a using Letus35 adapter?

Stephen

The Letus35 Flip shoots nice images from what I have seen, has interchangeable lens mounts AND flips the image upright for you before it records it. So right now, the Letus35 Flip, at $1,500 is your best bet (IMHO). It also has less light-loss than the P+S adapter. I think P+S is at around 2 stops of light loss, Letus 35 Extreme is at 1/2 stop of light loss... way better than the P+S adapter, and about $5,000 less than than the P+S Adapter.

Here is a quote from the Letus Website:


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#11 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 01:38 AM

No, I said "From what I have seen"... I have seen several sample images shot with this adapter, and they look really nice to me. The images I have seen have been just as good if not better than the P+S adapter images I have seen.

Edited by Landon D. Parks, 17 December 2007 - 01:39 AM.

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#12 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 01:45 AM

No, I said "From what I have seen"... I have seen several sample images shot with this adapter, and they look really nice to me. The images I have seen have been just as good if not better than the P+S adapter images I have seen.


The adapter itself will have little to do with the images. If someone shot a comparison test with either adapter with the same lenses, I reckon you'd have a hard time distinguishing between the adapters.

Allen
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 03:41 AM

No, I said "From what I have seen"... I have seen several sample images shot with this adapter, and they look really nice to me. The images I have seen have been just as good if not better than the P+S adapter images I have seen.


Hi Landon,

OK you have not seen an adapter 1st hand, that's what I was trying to establish.

Stephen
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#14 John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 04:50 AM

As several people have pointed out, looking for image quality is probably the wrong end to start. Look at light loss, features, and maybe most important of all, usability. I've worked with the Redrock, and compared to P+S, it's a nightmare. It's big and clunky, you need an extra monitor you can turn upside down, the entire box will sometimes slowly slide out of position (and out of focus)... You can get some truly great images out of the HVX with the Redrock, but it's a lot of work. Then again, the price difference might just make it worthwhile for you. A friend of mine has ordered the Letus35, I am very eagerly awaiting his verdict. Otherwise I would always go for the P+S if the production can afford it.
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#15 Landon D. Parks

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 06:32 AM

At a light-loss point of view, Letus35 has most people beat. 1/2 stop of light lose for the adapter is really good.

Really, I don't see what features the P+S Mini35 has that the Letus35 Extreme doesn't have? other than a huge price tag. For me, if it come to a little less suitable appearance or some minor defects in the design, I'd take the defects over the high price.

Maybe the P+S adapter might have better optics or something??? But on an HVX, the Letus will probably render more than enough detail.

Edited by Landon D. Parks, 17 December 2007 - 06:33 AM.

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#16 Stephen Williams

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:27 AM

At a light-loss point of view, Letus35 has most people beat. 1/2 stop of light lose for the adapter is really good.


Hi Landon,

Do we know for sure that it is only 1/2 stop of light loss, has anybody here tested that claim?

Stephen
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#17 Benjamin Smith

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 11:19 AM

Movietube
Abelcinema

Super nice product and image way too expensive almost double the price of the HVX
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#18 Gary McClurg

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 02:37 PM

Movietube
Abelcinema

Super nice product and image way too expensive almost double the price of the HVX


I believe that there is suppose to be a movie tube jr. coming... around $3,500.... give or take a few dollars...
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#19 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 02:37 PM

I've worked with the Redrock, and compared to P+S, it's a nightmare. It's big and clunky, you need an extra monitor you can turn upside down, the entire box will sometimes slowly slide out of position (and out of focus)... You can get some truly great images out of the HVX with the Redrock, but it's a lot of work.



Hard Mounting the redrock to the camera is now a standard practice. the hard mount kit from RedRock Micro is around 20 bucks. Cheap fix to the sliding adapter box. (but normally, the locking mechanisms for the rod systems hold fairly well, are you sure you tightened them well???)

the one physical feature on the P+S Technik that I've noticed valuable is the ability to change the ground glass speed. Sometime while shooting with higher shutters you will catch focus on the grains in the redrock design, maybe they will make the motor speed adjustable later on too.

Allen
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#20 Jess Haas

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:19 PM

I used the movietube on a shoot and was not at all happy with it. Since the groundglass doesn't move you have to shoot close to wide open or risk seeing the ground glass. Because of this the fact that it was designed to be good for handheld isn't very useful and the whole angled camera thing was more annoying than anything.

We had the version with all the accessories which had mounts for 15mm video rods and 19mm film rods. Unfortunately our matte box was 15mm film spacing so we had to remove the shoulder mount/19mm rod mount to add our own base plate. Without this piece the base of the movietube is very thin creating a very unstable connection point.

I also had some serious focus issues with only the very center of the frame being in focus. This was more of a problem with certain focal length lenses than others, but definitely a problem. There could have been something wrong with the unit I was using, but I never really looked deeper into the issue since nothing about the unit made me want to use it again.

~Jess
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