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Question about the B&H 240EE


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#1 Larry Wilson

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:48 PM

I just picked up a Bell & Howell 240EE 16mm camera off of eBay. Right now I have a roll of Ektachrome 100D in the camera because I wanted to get immediate feedback on how well it works, but I am looking forward to shooting other stocks, and therein lies the problem. The camera comes with some kind of Series 4.5 filter holder that screws into the main lens, and from what I understand, the actual filter element goes in the back of the holder. unfortunately, nobody seems to have a #85 filter in Series 4.5 (B&H Photo has a #81EF filter, but that's still a little cool to use with tungsten film in daylight). I can't even find a step-up filter so that I can use a more standard size. does anyone know what the threading is for the standard lens, or how much they can correct for incorrect filtration in a telecine transfer?

I would like not to be limited to shooting nothing but daylight-balanced film or only being able to shoot tungsten film at night.
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#2 Freya Black

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:06 PM

I just picked up a Bell & Howell 240EE 16mm camera off of eBay. Right now I have a roll of Ektachrome 100D in the camera because I wanted to get immediate feedback on how well it works, but I am looking forward to shooting other stocks, and therein lies the problem. The camera comes with some kind of Series 4.5 filter holder that screws into the main lens, and from what I understand, the actual filter element goes in the back of the holder. unfortunately, nobody seems to have a #85 filter in Series 4.5 (B&H Photo has a #81EF filter, but that's still a little cool to use with tungsten film in daylight). I can't even find a step-up filter so that I can use a more standard size. does anyone know what the threading is for the standard lens, or how much they can correct for incorrect filtration in a telecine transfer?

I would like not to be limited to shooting nothing but daylight-balanced film or only being able to shoot tungsten film at night.


Thanks! I wanted to know this too but didn't know it was series 4.5!

4.5 = 25.5 mm

Yay! Now we know (I think!)

http://en.wikipedia....r_(photography)

love

Freya
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#3 Jess Haas

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:35 PM

If shooting negative stocks you can get away with just doing the color correction in the telecine. If you can find a source for these small series filters I would also be interested as I could use some for the lenses I have for my filmo.

~Jess
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#4 Larry Wilson

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:44 PM

If shooting negative stocks you can get away with just doing the color correction in the telecine. If you can find a source for these small series filters I would also be interested as I could use some for the lenses I have for my filmo.

~Jess


You mean I can forget about the filter entirely? That's definitely cool to know, because I could take advantage of the extra speed without it. I'm definitely glad to hear that.

I didn't know the Filmo also used Series 4.5, but I did find a solution for my problem. Chambless Cine Equipment has Series 4.5 filters. They want $65 or so with a #85 filter. Their address is http://www.chamblesscineequip.com.
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#5 Freya Black

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 05:55 PM

I just picked up a Bell & Howell 240EE 16mm camera off of eBay. Right now I have a roll of Ektachrome 100D in the camera because I wanted to get immediate feedback on how well it works, but I am looking forward to shooting other stocks, and therein lies the problem. The camera comes with some kind of Series 4.5 filter holder that screws into the main lens, and from what I understand, the actual filter element goes in the back of the holder. unfortunately, nobody seems to have a #85 filter in Series 4.5 (B&H Photo has a #81EF filter, but that's still a little cool to use with tungsten film in daylight). I can't even find a step-up filter so that I can use a more standard size. does anyone know what the threading is for the standard lens, or how much they can correct for incorrect filtration in a telecine transfer?

I would like not to be limited to shooting nothing but daylight-balanced film or only being able to shoot tungsten film at night.


You could of course cut some wratten gelatin filters down to size or even better tape a larger glass filter to the front of the lens. :)

love

Freya
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#6 Jess Haas

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 02:21 AM

You mean I can forget about the filter entirely? That's definitely cool to know, because I could take advantage of the extra speed without it. I'm definitely glad to hear that.

You overexpose the blue layer but with modern stocks you can get away with it and it is done all the time. Just keep in mind that you will start to lose information in the blue layer a little sooner than you would with the filter.

The filters for the filmo depend on which lenses you have. I know mine are a small series filter but don't know the one of the top of my head. All of the filters I have for it are in very bad shape so I will probably get some NDs and an 85 at some point. Thanks for the info on where to find them.

~Jess

Edited by Jess Haas, 19 December 2007 - 02:21 AM.

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#7 Larry Wilson

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 10:29 PM

You could of course cut some wratten gelatin filters down to size or even better tape a larger glass filter to the front of the lens. :)

love

Freya


You know, things were so desperate that I was actually considering that, but I'll wait until I get these results back. The lens may be so unsharp by itself that reducing it even further by using the cheap and dirty method would be even worse.. I have 40 feet left on it, and it should be done by this weekend, and I'll have the end results by the beginning of the new year.
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#8 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 02:41 PM

You mean I can forget about the filter entirely? That's definitely cool to know, because I could take advantage of the extra speed without it. I'm definitely glad to hear that.


Of course you won't get exact colors because you've overexposed the blue layer.

Corrected unfiltered footage won't quite match properly filtered footage.


Series 4.5 is also called Series C. My guess is because it's about the same size as a C-mt.
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#9 Jess Haas

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 02:46 PM

Of course you won't get exact colors because you've overexposed the blue layer.

Corrected unfiltered footage won't quite match properly filtered footage.

With modern negative stocks and properly exposed film a little bit of color correction is all it takes to bring things back to normal.

~Jess
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#10 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 03:59 PM

With modern negative stocks and properly exposed film a little bit of color correction is all it takes to bring things back to normal.


What I said was: 'Corrected unfiltered footage won't quite match properly filtered footage.'

You can bring it to normal, but it won't be optimal color & the colors won't exactly match the color in filtered footage you might intercut with it. It would be akin to intercutting different stocks.
In addition, you've lost some of your ability for density correction because of the skewed color densities.

A 'We'll correct it in post' attitude will lead to more sloppiness.
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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 06:18 PM

You know, things were so desperate that I was actually considering that, but I'll wait until I get these results back. The lens may be so unsharp by itself that reducing it even further by using the cheap and dirty method would be even worse.. I have 40 feet left on it, and it should be done by this weekend, and I'll have the end results by the beginning of the new year.


You are in for a good suprise because the lens is actually somewhat nice! :)

Actually if you were to tape on a high quality glass filter then it shouldn't reduce the sharpness noticably.

I've been thinking of using the front screw in bit and some epoxy glue to make a cokin A Adaptor, of course then you are in the world of resin and not glass, but I suspect it would still be nicer than cutting down gel and would give really good results for a budget price.

love

Freya
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#12 Aaron Martin (TX)

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 12:01 PM

The camera comes with some kind of Series 4.5 filter holder that screws into the main lens, and from what I understand, the actual filter element goes in the back of the holder.


Thank you all for this post. I've been looking for a filter for my B&H 240 EE for some time and now I know where to get one.

Larry, do you think you could post a picture of the filter holder you mentioned in your post?

Thanks,

Aaron
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#13 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 03:36 PM

If you do a search in the "Lenses and filters" subsection of "Cameras & Photo" on ebay, you can find a 25.5mm to 37mm step ring and if you go here http://camerafilters...p_Up_Rings.html you can find 25.5mm step rings to a variety of sizes.
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#14 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 04:09 PM

Correction: 25.5mm to 46mm step rings on the camerafilters.net page and some more here... http://www.camerafil...ges/rings1.aspx

Edited by Sir Alvin Ekarma, 05 January 2008 - 04:10 PM.

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#15 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 09:27 PM

Thank you all for this post. I've been looking for a filter for my B&H 240 EE for some time and now I know where to get one.

http://www.chambless...log/filters.htm is the only page I have seen that lists series 4.5 filters, he may have old stock, or perhaps they or made to order these days..

Most of the B&H cameras that take the 4.5 filter have the retaining ring already on the lens, you just unscrew the very front ring, and drop the filter in place. if it is missing you would put in a series 4.5 retaining ring which can probaly be found whereever you find the filter. A series 4.5 to 5 or 6 ring would also work, alowing the use of the far more common series 6 filters. (often marked series VI of course)
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#16 Freya Black

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 10:54 AM

If you do a search in the "Lenses and filters" subsection of "Cameras & Photo" on ebay, you can find a 25.5mm to 37mm step ring and if you go here http://camerafilters...p_Up_Rings.html you can find 25.5mm step rings to a variety of sizes.


Great tip! Thankyou! I was hoping for a moment I could get a cokin A filter holder on the front but unfortunately there is not that much clearence between the lens and the Electronic eye which unfortunately juts out further than the lens. Maybe if I stack enough step up rings then I can get clear of the electronic eye but I'm not sure if that would work.

Also does anyone have any idea about the markings for speeds on this camera. I've done some tests and it appears that the speed control is entirely variable, it doesn't rely on just being at a paticular point for a paricular speed. Presumably you are at 24fps when the pointer is midway between the 2 and the 4 or half way into the 24fps section? Can anyone tell me if this is right?

On the same note I'm wondering if the line between 12 and 16 fps lines up with about 12fps. It seems like it might to me but I might have it all wrong.

Can anyone elaborate on the speeds?

love

Freya
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#17 Freya Black

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 03:21 PM

Great tip! Thankyou! I was hoping for a moment I could get a cokin A filter holder on the front but unfortunately there is not that much clearence between the lens and the Electronic eye which unfortunately juts out further than the lens. Maybe if I stack enough step up rings then I can get clear of the electronic eye but I'm not sure if that would work.

Also does anyone have any idea about the markings for speeds on this camera. I've done some tests and it appears that the speed control is entirely variable, it doesn't rely on just being at a paticular point for a paricular speed. Presumably you are at 24fps when the pointer is midway between the 2 and the 4 or half way into the 24fps section? Can anyone tell me if this is right?

On the same note I'm wondering if the line between 12 and 16 fps lines up with about 12fps. It seems like it might to me but I might have it all wrong.

Can anyone elaborate on the speeds?

love

Freya


What I meant by "a paticular point", is that the speeds on the 240ee are variable across a range instead of having paticular settings for each speed. If the pointer is between 16 and 24 then you will have a speed somewhere between 16 and 24, whatever that might be. It might actually be quite useful in the context of a lot of 16mm projectors that have an 18fps setting and a 24fps setting instead of a 16fps setting. You can probably set the 240ee just above 16 somewhere and get close to correct speed on playback on the projector.

love

Freya
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#18 Larry Wilson

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 07:19 PM

Well, I finally resolved my #85 filter problem. I was fortunate in that I found a Series 4.5-Series V step-up ring, and the camera shop I bought it at had a #85 filter in that size. I haven't tested it out, but I will soon. I also have to look at getting a 0.3 ND filter so that I can shoot some of the faster stocks in daylight.

In the meantime, I shot a roll of E100D just to get immediate feedback on sharpness and to test my "modified" Sunny 16 rule. I got the footage back from Spectra two weeks ago, and even though I was only able to eye-ball it (I don't have a viewer or a projector), I could see that I was dead-on in both areas. Now I'm graduating to negative stocks. I recently won several eBay auctions and I have at least eight 100' rolls of various neg stocks, including three rolls of EXR 50D and one EXR 500T (which I just shot at night recently). Some of them are being used for testing, but most of them are going to be used at our local Pride Parade next week. You may not necessarily agree with the politics, but you can't deny that there would be no better test for a color flimstock, right?

Anyways, I'll let everyone know how they come out.
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