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Swapping out normal flourecent lights with Kinos


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#1 James Leonzio

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 04:09 AM

I can't believe it but I couldn't find a thread about this. Sorry if I'm repeating, but I just wanted to make sure what the deal is with swapping out kinos for typical on location flourecents.

So my location is an office with typical gross nasty flourecents. Instead of waiting for post to color correct, I'd like to swap out the bulbs with 3200K Kino Flo Bulbs. As I understand it, these will give me a true color temperature and I can work with typical tungsten lights around it as well.

So my question is, kino flo makes several different 3200K bulbs. Obviously I will need 4' bulbs, but what intensity/type? Will some work and others not? or will any 4' work?

Also, does anyone know a good place to rent or buy these bulbs in the NYC area?

thanks,
James
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#2 Mitch Gross

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 10:17 AM

You can do thisbut beware, many industrial fixtures use the newer narrow T8 tubes instead of the old standard T12s. Kinos are T12 and they may not fit in the housings. Barbizon Electric or B&H Photo are good places to buybulbs. Don't know anyplace that would rent just bulbs. You could rent the Kinos and pull the bulbs out for the day.
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#3 timHealy

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 10:53 AM

Your typical lighting rental house will rent kino bulbs. Or some electricians with a large inventory. e mail me for individuals.

I think T-12's will work for a short time with the incorrect size ballast but you wouldn't want to do something like that for the long term. Some rental houses (and individuals) do have T-8 or T-9 color correct bulbs but they are more rare than T-12's.

Also if shooting off speed, you may want to stick to HMI safe shooting speeds if you don't know what kind of ballasts are up there.

And unless Kino has changed their manufacturing process recently (or whoever make the bulbs for Kino) 3200 bulbs are more like 3400. If you really want 3200 then look into using kino 2900 bulbs. Or you may have to color correct your 3200 Kinos or the additional lights you may add to your scene.

Best

Tim
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#4 Chris Pritzlaff

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 02:52 PM

I personally never had a problem using the 3400 bulbs in the practical fixtures since I ran with the idea that florescent lights are typically cooler looking anyway and the difference was never enough for me to justify gelling every fixture in the room - I was shooting in a large hospital and we had to replace the globes in over 50 fixtures. We used the T12 size globes and we didn't have any problem

We rented directly from Kino and they were perfectly willing to rent us the bulbs only. Few rental houses carried that many spares so we had to go directly to them

Edited by Chris Pritzlaff, 24 December 2007 - 02:54 PM.

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#5 Michael Nash

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 04:13 PM

I can't stand those Kino 2900's. They're a nasty pink, not orange, and never match anything. The regular 3200's blend much better even if they're not always a perfect match for tungsten.
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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 05:10 PM

I can't stand those Kino 2900's. They're a nasty pink, not orange, and never match anything. The regular 3200's blend much better even if they're not always a perfect match for tungsten.


I agree with you on the 2900s. Even gelling them as per a color meter doesn't look right to me. I'm a fan of 3200s with 1/8th CTS.
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#7 Daniel Madsen

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:16 PM

I think T-12's will work for a short time with the incorrect size ballast but you wouldn't want to do something like that for the long term



do different size bulbs (T8 vs T12) really need a different ballast? After all, T8 and T12 bulbs come in the same wattage.
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#8 Jaron Berman

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 10:57 PM

The short answer is no - if they're the same wattage, they draw the same current and thus can be interchanged if they physically fit. I assume you're looking to use standard Kino tubes in a home-depot style T8 electronic fixture? If so, this will work, and it will give you a pretty significant output increase over using a Kino tube in a magnetic T12 fixture, but probably less light than in a Kino fixture.

While I've never actually measured it, it's rumored that Kino overdrives their T12 tubes (I would guess at 2x based on the size of their ballasts). The cool thing about those cheap home depot T8 fixtures is that you can buy 2 of them, put both ballasts into a single fixture, and drive Kino tubes as brightly as they would be driven in a Kino fixture. With just about any electronic ballast, you can overdrive a tube. Oh, and note that overdriving a tube does NOT change the output color. The law of diminishing returns limits how far you can actually go efficiently, but with a 2-tube electronic ballast driving a single tube (2x overdrive), expect 70% more light. 2x 2-tube electronic ballasts driving a single tube (4x overdrive), you get about 2.5x the light of the standard driven tube. People with aquariums and grow rooms do this all the time because they're limited on space - they drive their tubes harder to get way more light in the same amount of space on top of the tank or plant.

In the end, it's probably worth it to get catalogs from all the major tube manufacturers, and order from a supplier. Most will show all the specs you need. If you're keying talent, it's still possible to find >91 CRI tubes in either 5700 or 3500K for under $10. For general use, you can find >80 CRI for about $2/tube.
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#9 Andrew Koch

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Posted 26 December 2007 - 03:46 AM

You can do thisbut beware, many industrial fixtures use the newer narrow T8 tubes instead of the old standard T12s. Kinos are T12 and they may not fit in the housings. Barbizon Electric or B&H Photo are good places to buybulbs. Don't know anyplace that would rent just bulbs. You could rent the Kinos and pull the bulbs out for the day.



Kino Flo does make T8 globes. I am not sure how readily available they are in NYC. We used about thirty of the 55's in an office building on a show I did about 2 months ago and there were no problems. Here is a link to kino flos's website, the section on T8's

http://www.kinoflo.c...20Match.htm#900
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#10 James Leonzio

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

Kino Flo does make T8 globes. I am not sure how readily available they are in NYC. We used about thirty of the 55's in an office building on a show I did about 2 months ago and there were no problems. Here is a link to kino flos's website, the section on T8's

http://www.kinoflo.c...20Match.htm#900



Kooooooooooooooch!!!!! What's up man? Thanks for the post.

I have another question to add here...

So I've called everyone I can think of here in NY to try and find those T8 kino bulbs and can only really get them through special order. Most people don't even know what they are. However, I did find a lighting supplier that carries MovieTone bulbs that, according to the salesman, has a true color temperature of 3200K just like the kinos. Has anyone had any experience with these? If so, please do share.

thanks.
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