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#1 Hugo Perez

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 05:51 PM

Hi,

I really need advice here.

I was projecting some film I had shot recently, and the film started burning, so I immediately shut the projector off. I had a difficult time getting the film out of the projector path, but I was finally able to do it. I had to cut a 1 or 2 inch section of film (only 2 frames were burnt, the rest seems to be fine), and now I have the film separated into two reels. So...

How do I put the film back together? Is this a good time to learn to splice?

Other things I should look out for the next time I use the projector?

Thanks
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#2 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 06:55 PM

Hi,

I really need advice here.

I was projecting some film I had shot recently, and the film started burning, so I immediately shut the projector off. I had a difficult time getting the film out of the projector path, but I was finally able to do it. I had to cut a 1 or 2 inch section of film (only 2 frames were burnt, the rest seems to be fine), and now I have the film separated into two reels. So...

How do I put the film back together? Is this a good time to learn to splice?

Other things I should look out for the next time I use the projector?

Thanks



Wait, you had to cut one or two inches but there were only two frames burned? That's odd, unless the film around the burn frames just burned the hell out of shape. Usually you can just cut the one or two frames without much ado. And yeah, a splicer will come in handy. Projectors usually only burn film when either: 1) The bulb is brighter, hotter than it should normally be. 2) The film gets jammed in the gate with the projector bulb going at full blast. (The bulb would normally burn the film if it weren't moving at whatever fps. Projectors that let you still a frame on screen have a built in douser that cuts the light down automatically when the projector stops with the bulb on) 3) A combination of both instances.
So without more info, can't say more about what caused it, although it sounds like it jammed somewhere and it just burned two frames at the gate. Film usually jams if there are splices that are done incorrectly, but this seems to be camera original, so who knows? But keep that in mind for when you spice it again.
I would sit closer to it next time, trying to see what happens (and to stop it fast) if it does jam/ burn film again.

Good luck!

S
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#3 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 07:00 PM

The last thing I would be concerned with is splicing the film back together. I would try and analyze what caused the burning. I have seen an actual film "dissolve" when it was left in single frame mode or still frame mode for more than a couple of seconds.

I guess the key question is, when the film actually started burning what frame rate was the film running at? From that answer perhaps somebody might know exactly what went wrong.
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#4 Hugo Perez

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:08 AM

Projectors usually only burn film when either: 1) The bulb is brighter, hotter than it should normally be. 2) The film gets jammed in the gate with the projector bulb going at full blast. (The bulb would normally burn the film if it weren't moving at whatever fps. Projectors that let you still a frame on screen have a built in douser that cuts the light down automatically when the projector stops with the bulb on) 3) A combination of both instances.


That explains it. The rewinding function in my projector doesn't work, so when I tried that (cause I forgot), it got jammed. So when the film stayed in place for so long, it burned.

Is splicing hard? Now I'm gonna have to buy a splicer.
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#5 Kevin Olmsted

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 07:42 AM

I agree with Alessandro. Figuring out the issue with your projector is your most pressing issue, especially if you plan on using it frequently.

I don't use my projector a great deal so I con't contribute to that opart of the discussion, but I do a lot of splicing.

I bought a Fujica Single 8 splicer, an inexpensive viewer/editor and some Kodak splicing tapes and taught myself how to splice. I figured it out pretty quick; my first splice was almost perfect! I think anyone with patience can do it with ease, even the first time. Once I sat down and got into it, I actually found it quite relaxing to just plug away at my little film!

You can almost always find at least one of those Fuji Single 8 splicers on ebay for $5-$10. They work with Super 8 film and they are built like tanks. I bought a cheap little Baia viewer/editor for $15 to start with but I stepped up and got an Elmo. Press tapes can be found on ebay; I bought mine at urbanskifilm.com.

Good luck on your editing/splicing endeavors!

Kevin
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#6 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 08:22 PM

Spectra film and video is supporting the splicing side of Super-8 by stocking hama tape splices and hama splicers.

The cool thing is the hama tape splices may also work with other brand name splicers such as the wurker. Fresh splicing tape is critical not only for long lasting splices but for anyone who will be ranking their film footage. Additionally, Most movie viewers really don't allow one to properly rewind the film compactly enough for then putting on a rank.

When a loosely rewound film is loaded onto a rank cintel machine it can suddenly literally tighten against itself while still on the reel. This is very bad and cause what is know as sinching scratches to appear throughout the film caused by the film self-tightening due to the take up and supply side rank motors pulling in opposite directions.
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#7 Hugo Perez

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:26 PM

Is there some place I could get umm... like base film or some mock film that I could test the projector with? You know, so I don't have to use my precious developed film. Although I'm sure the projector is fine, it was my bad operation.

Thanks
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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:38 AM

Although the splicers are cheap, the pre-perforated tapes are about 10p. each. So if you're going to edit on film a lot, you'd be better off with a CIR splicer, which is more expensive, but uses plain tape (it cuts and perforates itself). They're about £150 new. I have one , but I'd need a very good offer to part with it.
You can buy super-8 leader, but after a bit of editing you'll accumulate enough junk film to use for practice.
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:04 PM

Although the splicers are cheap, the pre-perforated tapes are about 10p. each. So if you're going to edit on film a lot, you'd be better off with a CIR splicer, which is more expensive, but uses plain tape (it cuts and perforates itself). They're about £150 new. I have one , but I'd need a very good offer to part with it.
You can buy super-8 leader, but after a bit of editing you'll accumulate enough junk film to use for practice.


True that at the end of the day a roll of tape is cheaper, but I've always been a fan of the pre-fabricated splice tapes. The way I look at is, if I actually went through a whole pack of hama splice tapes it means I just spent a ton of time editing and the cost per hour was so low that the actual cost differential between the two tape formats becomes negligible.

Is the roll tape a bit more cumbersome to use when one is doing double sided splicing and they don't want the tape "wrapped around" the edge of the film?
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#10 Alessandro Malfatti

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:56 PM

I wouldn't recommend using any tape splicer, tape splices are usually the ones that get the film jammed, I remember two times where the film got jammed and burned the frame, and it was because of an ageing tape splice (That was a 16mm film, but I suppose the same thing applies to S8).
And yeah, get some leader, splice it to a loop around the two reels and let it run while you check if everything is running ok. Perhaps it was just a loop that was too short, those auto-thread mechanisms sometimes don't work as well as we'd wish they would.
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#11 Mark Dunn

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 06:46 AM

I've never had a splice jam. Of course, if the film HAS to be repaired, a splice is the only option, and tape has to be better that cement in super-8.
The wrap-around can be fiddly, but I've found that a single-sided splice is perfectly adequate. You just snip off the excess. It's less noticeable and goes through more smoothly. (For the OP's benefit: the standard CIR splicer cuts a single piece of tape which you wrap around the film).
Plain tape is SO much cheaper, though. 100 times cheaper. On a ten-minute film, that's 20p instead of £20. Nowadays that's a roll of super-8. Or I can recut axtravagantly and blow a whole pound.
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