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Pimp my Krasnogorsk!


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#1 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 12:31 PM

Hi everyone!

I just finished my first day of shooting on my first 16mm project ever. After getting all the gear together, it just struck me as looking a bit "pimped" :lol: The DIY video assist worked like a charm. Had a blast, and can't wait to get my footage back.
Have a look and say what you think...

Thanks,

Kristian
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#2 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 01:21 PM

Nice rig!
What kind of (massive) lens is that? It looks like a 500/1000mm for 35mm still photo, which of course would double up for 16mm. Wow! Got to love those Pentax M42-mount K3's The only thing you are missing is a miliframe motor for that puppy. I once saw one on ebay but didn't buy it, which I do regret from time to time . . .
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#3 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:01 PM

Nice rig!
What kind of (massive) lens is that? It looks like a 500/1000mm for 35mm still photo, which of course would double up for 16mm. Wow! Got to love those Pentax M42-mount K3's The only thing you are missing is a miliframe motor for that puppy. I once saw one on ebay but didn't buy it, which I do regret from time to time . . .



Thanks,

I actually had this camera converted to Nikon mount, because I have access to some great Nikkor lenses - such as this 300mm 2.8 :D It was fantastic on the camera and of course very long for s16. And it has that nice heavy feel, too....

K.
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#4 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 04:07 PM

wow! Pimp my Krasnogorsk indeed! What is that in the view finder a small camera rigged to the z1 display?

Kieran.
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#5 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 04:29 AM

Thanks,

I actually had this camera converted to Nikon mount, because I have access to some great Nikkor lenses - such as this 300mm 2.8 :D It was fantastic on the camera and of course very long for s16. And it has that nice heavy feel, too....

K.

Yes, This show great.
But, i wish tell you a some my ideas from my personal experience to use of super tele lenses.
At first a worry about your suppor. You fix of lens and not fix of camera.
This is not good ,because, the any gap at part of camera mount can move of optical axis of lens and youcan have a some smeared picture.
Kransogrosk-3 have 4 small screws M3 for screwing of lens mount and body of camera.

I recommend you to build special hard support for fix of body of camera and support of lens on one big plate and after on tripod.

Other idea, The size of picture of Nikon lens 24x 36 mm and many parts of this image can give you
bad optical flare s. That's why, will be good, if you set of any mask with size of image of 16 mm cine camera between lens and camera.
This mask can be like lens hood or thin mask.

Yes,of course,
I can't compare of Nikon 300 mm F2.8 professional lens with other lenses, because, i can imagine of quality of image.

But, for information:
The russian tele lens Tair-3 300 mm lens from photo sniper Zenit give a good result .
This is lens have M42 screw mount and instant-return diaphragm.
You set of need value of aperture, press on lever and aperture will jamp to setup value.
Tair-3 have classic optical scheme with aperture control.
The next series of russian tele lenses 500 mm, 1000 mm have " mirror " optical scheme ( optical scheme of Maksutov) and don't have aperture control.

If you like of super tele lenses, i can recommed to use of super tele lenses from medium format photo cameras too.
This can be russian Jupiter-36 250 mm, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 300 mm, 600 mm with Pentacon Six lens mount.
The lenses with Pentacon Six lens mount can be use with 2x teleconverter.
But, not will need forger about difference between a size of images 60 x 60 mm and 7.45 x 10.1 mm and will need set of mask.

Any case, i wish underline again, this is very interested version of use of Krasnorgosk-3 camera
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#6 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 06:28 AM

Thanks Olex,

That is why I like to post in this forum, so I can get some input from people with long experience.
I am sure there are many great options for lenses if I had kept the M42 mount - but when I own or can borrow 10000$ worth of nikon lenses - and only the meteor zoom in m42 - the temptation was great for having that conversion. I am not at all saying that this is the best solution for everyone. And the 300mm I borrowed is the newest one - with all bells and whistles, vibration control, lens so-and-so-coating, BUT NO APERTURE RING.... So I have to take the lens off the camera to set the aperture..... Not ideal, but the chance to use this fantastic lens could not be missed.
I will be on the lookout for flare when I get the footage back - thanks for the warning and masking tip.
The lens mount seemed strong enough for me to risk mounting by the lens, but of course I would have preferred a more secure mount - one more thing I have learned on my first job. We only used the 300mm for one shot so far. The rest was mostly on my 20mm (see photo)

I am learning as I go with this 16mm experience, so I really appreciate your input.


K.
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#7 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 06:34 AM

wow! Pimp my Krasnogorsk indeed! What is that in the view finder a small camera rigged to the z1 display?

Kieran.


Thanks Kieran,

Yes, that is hooked up to my Z1. I just got it, and it works really well. The only thing is I read a recommendation for an 8mm lens for the security camera. I got a zoom 3,5-8mm. But I guess that recommendation was for a 1/4" camera - and the one I got is 1/3". So the image is just a little small. I guess I will just get another 8mm-something zoom lens to get a full frame.

Kristian
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#8 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 12:37 PM

POOR MAN"S VIDEO ASSIST! YEAH!

Edited by saulie rodgar, 14 January 2008 - 12:39 PM.

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#9 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 12:45 PM

Thanks Olex,

That is why I like to post in this forum, so I can get some input from people with long experience.
I am sure there are many great options for lenses if I had kept the M42 mount - but when I own or can borrow 10000$ worth of nikon lenses - and only the meteor zoom in m42 - the temptation was great for having that conversion. I am not at all saying that this is the best solution for everyone. And the 300mm I borrowed is the newest one - with all bells and whistles, vibration control, lens so-and-so-coating, BUT NO APERTURE RING.... So I have to take the lens off the camera to set the aperture..... Not ideal, but the chance to use this fantastic lens could not be missed.
I will be on the lookout for flare when I get the footage back - thanks for the warning and masking tip.
The lens mount seemed strong enough for me to risk mounting by the lens, but of course I would have preferred a more secure mount - one more thing I have learned on my first job. We only used the 300mm for one shot so far. The rest was mostly on my 20mm (see photo)

I am learning as I go with this 16mm experience, so I really appreciate your input.


K.


My (unspoken) concern was the K3 would be to heavy for not being supported itself and breaking at the lens mount. Olex seems to point at other problems with picture. I don't know if anybody makes an interface plate for Arri lightweight support bars for the K3. Les Bosher makes one for the ACL, I am sure he can make you one for the K3.

www.lesbosher.co.uk/

S
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#10 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:39 AM

Thanks Olex,

, BUT NO APERTURE RING.... So I have to take the lens off the camera to set the aperture.....


You lucky, if you can use of Nikon 300 mm F2,8 lens.
I had Canon professinal zoom lens 70-200 F2,8 and was happy too much, that's why, i can imagine of quality of image from Nikon lens.
You told, what you don't have a aperture control. I think, this is " Digital control " lens with apertire conrtol from camera.

I think about apertre control of photo lenses a some time ago and can recommed to take any low cost Nikon camera with digital aperture control. Take of lens mount from this camera and use of this device for
build of adapter for Kranosghorsk camera. After, You can install of additonal wires between photo camera and contacts of Nikon lens mount of Kranosgorsk adapter and you can control of aperture position by photo camera.
Theoretically - aperture control work similar of stepper motor and must be control by pulses.
But, i don't have any information about this. Will be good idea to study of Nikon lens control more detailed for use of Nikon lenses with electronic apertire control with 16 mmand 35 mm cine cameras.

You can imagine of qulaity of picture, if you will use of Nikon professional lenses with 35 mm cine cameras.
This must be fantastic quality.

About dolly system.
Yes, your system show simply.
But, after my experience to create, to build and to use of dolly systems, i understand, the dolly must have big weight. Because, the big weight of dolly can give me high stability.
The other, alternative idea, to use small dolly for camera only ( without cameraman ).
But, the position of camera from dolly must be not high, and will need lift of tracks by hard tripods.
Plastic tripods show good, but, i prefer of aluminium tubers with heavy wheels ( big inertia of rotation ).
Any case, i welcome of any experimens and will be glad to know opinion of other filmmakers.

I think, after you shooted a some footages with Kransogrosk-3 cameras you will think about lenses with more wide angle of view.
And i can tell about use of Krasnogorsk-3 with bayonet mount and prime lenses 12.5 mm, 20 mm, 50 mm from set of lenses of Krasnogorsk-1 camera and 10 mm, 15 mm lenses from 16SP camera.

The next step of uprating of equipments for film shooting can be Kinor-16 SX-2M camera with crystal sync speed motor, 400 ft film magazines and zoom lenses 7.5-75 mm, 10-100 mm, 12-120 mm, and prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm.
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#11 Will Montgomery

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:54 AM

Very nice, please post some clips when you get it back. Maybe even post a small segment of the video tap and the film to compare.

How was it winding the camera with the lens mounted like that? I've seem some winding attachments on the web that might be a nice and inexpensive addition to the rig that would make it easier for you.
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#12 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:29 PM

Very nice, please post some clips when you get it back. Maybe even post a small segment of the video tap and the film to compare.

How was it winding the camera with the lens mounted like that? I've seem some winding attachments on the web that might be a nice and inexpensive addition to the rig that would make it easier for you.



Thanks Will,

I will post a link to the finished video when it is done and any other footage like that from the tap if anyone is interested. It will take a while to get everything done though, but in a couple of months - fingers crossed... Winding wasn't too bad, but before the next shoot I will definitely mount lens and camera on a plate before arttaching to the tripod. I dont want to stand there with the lens and mount in one hand and ripped-open camera in the other :(

K.
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#13 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:15 PM

You are absolutely right Olex. This is a Digital control or through camera aperture control. Your idea of ripping out the aperture controls from an old SLR is definitely very interesting... I have a nikon in the closet that I have already picked some parts from (it is a shame as it is an SLR I wanted but could not afford 12 years ago - now it's 20$ on ebay........) What I have done so far - and laugh if you want to - is cut a small piece of plastic that I push into the lever mechanism that joins with the nikon camera. I have cut pieces of different sizes for different aperture settings . It is a zero-money, 30minutes solution, but the electronic solution would be very nice indeed.
I am experimenting with a few 16mm and 35mm cameras at the moment, the k-3 is just the beginning :-) I really like the Nikon lenses for still photography, so I will probably end up using them for 35mm as well. My widest lens is a 10-20 zoom, which is OK, but a bit slow and not as sharp as other lenses for nikon.
The dolly is a very, very basic one. I use it for video work indoors on already flat surfaces. But it actually worked really well in the shot in the photo above. It was really smooth in spite of being so light with only the tripod and camera on it. The tripod has seen better days and is close to being replaced by something a little more sturdy.

K.

You lucky, if you can use of Nikon 300 mm F2,8 lens.
I had Canon professinal zoom lens 70-200 F2,8 and was happy too much, that's why, i can imagine of quality of image from Nikon lens.
You told, what you don't have a aperture control. I think, this is " Digital control " lens with apertire conrtol from camera.

I think about apertre control of photo lenses a some time ago and can recommed to take any low cost Nikon camera with digital aperture control. Take of lens mount from this camera and use of this device for
build of adapter for Kranosghorsk camera. After, You can install of additonal wires between photo camera and contacts of Nikon lens mount of Kranosgorsk adapter and you can control of aperture position by photo camera.
Theoretically - aperture control work similar of stepper motor and must be control by pulses.
But, i don't have any information about this. Will be good idea to study of Nikon lens control more detailed for use of Nikon lenses with electronic apertire control with 16 mmand 35 mm cine cameras.

You can imagine of qulaity of picture, if you will use of Nikon professional lenses with 35 mm cine cameras.
This must be fantastic quality.

About dolly system.
Yes, your system show simply.
But, after my experience to create, to build and to use of dolly systems, i understand, the dolly must have big weight. Because, the big weight of dolly can give me high stability.
The other, alternative idea, to use small dolly for camera only ( without cameraman ).
But, the position of camera from dolly must be not high, and will need lift of tracks by hard tripods.
Plastic tripods show good, but, i prefer of aluminium tubers with heavy wheels ( big inertia of rotation ).
Any case, i welcome of any experimens and will be glad to know opinion of other filmmakers.

I think, after you shooted a some footages with Kransogrosk-3 cameras you will think about lenses with more wide angle of view.
And i can tell about use of Krasnogorsk-3 with bayonet mount and prime lenses 12.5 mm, 20 mm, 50 mm from set of lenses of Krasnogorsk-1 camera and 10 mm, 15 mm lenses from 16SP camera.

The next step of uprating of equipments for film shooting can be Kinor-16 SX-2M camera with crystal sync speed motor, 400 ft film magazines and zoom lenses 7.5-75 mm, 10-100 mm, 12-120 mm, and prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm.


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#14 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:01 PM

My (unspoken) concern was the K3 would be to heavy for not being supported itself and breaking at the lens mount. Olex seems to point at other problems with picture. I don't know if anybody makes an interface plate for Arri lightweight support bars for the K3. Les Bosher makes one for the ACL, I am sure he can make you one for the K3.

www.lesbosher.co.uk/

S


Thanks,

I will make a support plate for the next time I use this lens. I don't think I will bother Les Bosher with it - although he already did a fantastic job at converting this camera to Nikon mount ;)


K.
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#15 max sacker

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 09:16 AM

Hi everyone!

I just finished my first day of shooting on my first 16mm project ever. After getting all the gear together, it just struck me as looking a bit "pimped" :lol: The DIY video assist worked like a charm. Had a blast, and can't wait to get my footage back.
Have a look and say what you think...

Thanks,

Kristian


Hi Kristian,

Can you tell me how you built the video assist. I can't find the right lenses, CCD cameras to build one for my Kinor 16CX-2M and it's driving me nuts.
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#16 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 10:01 AM

Hi Kristian,

Can you tell me how you built the video assist. I can't find the right lenses, CCD cameras to build one for my Kinor 16CX-2M and it's driving me nuts.


Hi Max,

Here is the camera that I attached:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

I attached it, zoomed and focused - no problems at all. As I mentioned, the 8mm lens does not quite fill the frame, so maybe 10 or 12mm would be perfect..?

K.
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#17 Natalie Saito

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 04:57 PM

haha..i own one of these. maybe i should shoot something. it's a bitch to load and spring-wound but it does the job for what it cost :)
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#18 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:34 AM

[quote name='Kristian Schumacher' date='I actually had this camera converted to Nikon mount[/quote]

So the actual mount was converted or did you get one of the $9.95 screw in M42 to Nikon adapters? I was asking because I wondered if such an adapter would throw off the back focus at all...
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#19 aapo lettinen

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:58 AM

I think this is a bit more pimped K-camera than yours Kristian
http://www.owyheesou...6mm_camaera.jpg :P


It is on this site:
http://www.owyheesou...rasnogorsk.html
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#20 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 10:26 AM

I think this is a bit more pimped K-camera than yours Kristian
http://www.owyheesou...6mm_camaera.jpg :P


Show very interested.
The additional film magazines, long viewfinder

But, I think, if you need camera with similar technical requests,
may be , the 16 mm professional studio camera 16SK-2 can be better ?

This is 16 mm professinal studio camera with high precision transport mechanism with registration pin,
low noise 26 Db, 1000 ft film magazines, Kinor-16 lens mount, can use of all lenses of Kinor-16 SX-cameras.
This can be prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm, zoom lenses 10-100, 12-120 , 7.5-75 mm
If the anybody interested, can send images, ask me by my direct e-mail.


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