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Sound and film speed


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#1 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 12:25 PM

Hello All,

I've got an old Cine K-100 Turret camera. I'm wanting to try to incorporate some sound.

Here is what I want to do. Kind of like a music video (film in this case) thing. I want to speed up the audio of a song to be twice as fast and film me lip synching to the song. While doing that I want to film at 48 fps. The idea is that after telecine, I bring the footage in @ 24 fps and the song in at it's normal speed. So the look "should" be a slow motion looking lip-synch to a song at normal speed. The problem I'm having is that I'm not sure that my camera is filming at EXACTLY 48fps (or 24 or 64 for that matter) so when I bring it in to the digital editing system, I can get it close, but now close enough. Hope this all makes sense.

Rather then spend a few hundred more $, I'd like to get some input.

thanks,
T

Also, what are other people in my situation doing for sound?
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#2 Richardson Leao

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 12:34 PM

Hello All,

I've got an old Cine K-100 Turret camera. I'm wanting to try to incorporate some sound.

Here is what I want to do. Kind of like a music video (film in this case) thing. I want to speed up the audio of a song to be twice as fast and film me lip synching to the song. While doing that I want to film at 48 fps. The idea is that after telecine, I bring the footage in @ 24 fps and the song in at it's normal speed. So the look "should" be a slow motion looking lip-synch to a song at normal speed. The problem I'm having is that I'm not sure that my camera is filming at EXACTLY 48fps (or 24 or 64 for that matter) so when I bring it in to the digital editing system, I can get it close, but now close enough. Hope this all makes sense.

Rather then spend a few hundred more $, I'd like to get some input.

thanks,
T

Also, what are other people in my situation doing for sound?


One idea, if you use math software like matlab... while shooting, record the camera noise, maybe use also a clapboard to announce the beginning of the scene.

The camera noise will have a low-frequency component that tells you exactely the fps, as there is some kind of sound event everytime the cam pulls a frame or close the shutter.

Now, you have an envelope containing the fps info of the camera vs time.

So, then, you can stretch/compress the tempo of your sound file according to the fps vs time of the shutter.

Edited by Richardson Leao, 16 January 2008 - 12:35 PM.

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#3 Marc Alucard

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 12:55 PM

How long will your k-100 run @ 48FPS on a wind? I hope you plan on short shots and fast edits. Camera noise isn't an issue since you will shoot this MOS.
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#4 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 03:17 PM

How long will your k-100 run @ 48FPS on a wind? I hope you plan on short shots and fast edits. Camera noise isn't an issue since you will shoot this MOS.


Thanks for the replies.

at 48fps I can get about 30 seconds. I think that will be more than enough as I want to keep the cuts going.
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#5 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 03:55 PM

The problem I'm having is that I'm not sure that my camera is filming at EXACTLY 48fps (or 24 or 64 for that matter) so when I bring it in to the digital editing system, I can get it close, but now close enough. Hope this all makes sense.


Also, what are other people in my situation doing for sound?


It's a spring wound camera never intended for sync sound.
One shouldn't expect something on a par with Xtal speed control of an electric motor.

Maybe installing a sync pulse generator on the K-100 & recording that while rerecording the playback track.
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#6 John Sprung

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 04:12 PM

Maybe installing a sync pulse generator on the K-100 & recording that while rerecording the playback track.

That, or drive the K-100 with a crystal motor. Look around for a company called Tobin.



-- J.S.
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#7 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 07:47 PM

Thanks guys.

I am aware that the this camera wasn't designed for this, but it's the only camera I have. I tried Tobin and got a response. He was aware of the camera, but isn't going to be building a motor for it as it doesn't make economical sense.

Thanks again to all who responded:)

T
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#8 Tom Hepburn

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 09:21 AM

Just an update; I was able to get the sound and picture synched in AfterEffects (software). It took some fudging, but it works. I just had to interpret the footage at a specific fps, like 26 for example as my camera is never running at exactly 24 fps. I don't think it would work for a 2 minute continuous shot, but it works fine for my short shots.

Thanks again for the responses.

T
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Visual Products

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rebotnix Technologies

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Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

CineTape

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Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

The Slider

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport