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Some Cinematography Questions


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#1 Alex Armstrong

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 12:35 PM

Hello all,
I have a few questions to ask and hope some of you can give me some feedback on. I plan on shooting a feature film on Super-16 Éclair NPR, I have an Angenieux 12-120 lens. My main goal is to shoot with available light and some but very little lighting set-up?s (Mainly for night shots). My goal is to have a low depth of field for the majority of the shots. I will be shooting inside with a good amount of available fluorescent light and I will be shooting day outside and night outside with small lighting set-ups. So here are my questions.

1. Is it possible to use the same type of film (ISO) with daylight filters if tungsten, inside, outside, day and night and still achieve a low depth of field? And if so what type of film (ISO) should I get?


2. Are there any lenses that you would recommend for the Éclair NPR that would better help me achieve a low depth of field?

Thank you
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 12:44 PM

DON'T CROSS-POST A QUESTION IN MULTIPLE FORUMS.

Which of your three identical posts do you want us to answer? Pick one.
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#3 Alex Armstrong

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 12:57 PM

DON'T CROSS-POST A QUESTION IN MULTIPLE FORUMS.

Which of your three identical posts do you want us to answer? Pick one.


I'm sorry if I cross posted forums, I wasn't sure of the rules. I just didn't know what forum to post it in. You can reply to this one if you like. Thank you for the advise and I apologize.
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 01:06 PM

I'm sorry if I cross posted forums, I wasn't sure of the rules. I just didn't know what forum to post it in. You can reply to this one if you like. Thank you for the advise and I apologize.


First of all, when you mention "low depth of field" do you mean a shallow focus look?

If so, you might have a hard time using a fast film outdoors in sunlight and get enough ND to be able to shoot at a near wide-open aperture.

Basically if you're shooting in 16mm, your depth of field is going to be controlled by the f-stop you shoot at, and if you want a shallow-focus look, you'd need to use a fast lens and shoot it wide-open or nearly that. Let's say, a Zeiss Super-Speed shot at T/1.4 or T/2.

The Angeniex zoom is not a great lens shot wide-open, it's not that fast, and the depth of field will not be that shallow-looking unless you can stick to the longer end of the zoom and shoot tighter on objects to throw the background out of focus.

Generally if you had to use one stock for both daylight and tungsten scenes, you'd use tungsten-balanced film and use an orange 85B filter outdoors, not a daylight film with a blue 80A filter indoors in tungsten. The 80A filter loses two-stops of exposure whereas the 85B filters only loses 2/3's of a stop, and most people can stand to lose the exposure outdoors in daylight easier than indoors.

100T stock may be a good idea to use but the question is whether that's too slow for your interior scenes if you're talking about low-light, available light, etc. But 500T stock may be too fast for your day exterior scenes. You may have to go to 500T for indoors & nights but a slower film outdoors in daytime. And no matter what, you'll need ND filters outside, or 85ND combos.
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#5 Alex Armstrong

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 04:09 PM

First of all, when you mention "low depth of field" do you mean a shallow focus look?

If so, you might have a hard time using a fast film outdoors in sunlight and get enough ND to be able to shoot at a near wide-open aperture.

Basically if you're shooting in 16mm, your depth of field is going to be controlled by the f-stop you shoot at, and if you want a shallow-focus look, you'd need to use a fast lens and shoot it wide-open or nearly that. Let's say, a Zeiss Super-Speed shot at T/1.4 or T/2.

The Angeniex zoom is not a great lens shot wide-open, it's not that fast, and the depth of field will not be that shallow-looking unless you can stick to the longer end of the zoom and shoot tighter on objects to throw the background out of focus.

Generally if you had to use one stock for both daylight and tungsten scenes, you'd use tungsten-balanced film and use an orange 85B filter outdoors, not a daylight film with a blue 80A filter indoors in tungsten. The 80A filter loses two-stops of exposure whereas the 85B filters only loses 2/3's of a stop, and most people can stand to lose the exposure outdoors in daylight easier than indoors.

100T stock may be a good idea to use but the question is whether that's too slow for your interior scenes if you're talking about low-light, available light, etc. But 500T stock may be too fast for your day exterior scenes. You may have to go to 500T for indoors & nights but a slower film outdoors in daytime. And no matter what, you'll need ND filters outside, or 85ND combos.


Thank you very much for the response, it was extremely helpful. I was unsure what I would lose using the tungsten filter, thanks for the info.
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#6 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 01:00 PM

Also the Angie is not a Super 16mm lens
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#7 Alex Armstrong

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:02 PM

Also the Angie is not a Super 16mm lens

I had mine worked on so it cold shoot super-16 a while back.
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#8 James Baker

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 11:05 PM

I had mine worked on so it cold shoot super-16 a while back.


Martin means the lens.

Do you have the multi-coated Angenieux T2.1 or the older T2.5?

I thought that lens covered S16 only from 40mm on at minimum focus and almost, but not quite, at infinity.....and that's the later T2.1 version. (?)

Not sure of the coverage on the older one, but I imagine Martin would be the one who knows.

I don't believe either are that great wide open, as David has already mentioned.
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