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Crystal syncing/sync sound bolex?


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#1 Nick Castronuova

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:10 PM

Is it possible to either crystal sync your bolex, or manipulate your sound enough in pro-tools in order to sync up dialogue properly?

Thanks in advance!
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#2 Nick Mulder

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:32 PM

Yes in most cases for the first question but first which Bolex do you have > ?

You might try searching for 'crystal sync bolex' here or in google in the meantime

Post stretching and compressing audio - yuck! An Electric motor will generally stay constant over a take so you might get ok results with just a timestretch and move but a wind up will often be faster by up to 2fps at the beginning of a wind compared to the end, so any 20sec or longer takes and you're screwed fiddling in post with ramping stretches etc... Its been done though.

How do you plan to keep the Bolex quiet enough ?
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#3 Nick Castronuova

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 11:40 PM

I was going to either blimp the bolex or just re-record the lines afterward. Thanks for the response!
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#4 Clive Tobin

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:00 PM

Is it possible to either crystal sync your bolex, or manipulate your sound enough in pro-tools in order to sync up dialogue properly?...

We have made a number of crystal motors for Bolex over the years. They occasionally come up on Ebay. The TXM-22A crystal motor for Arri 16-S/M is back in stock and there is some chance we may resume making one or two of the motors for Bolex.

The most likely to be re-animated (?) by Tobin Cinema Systems are the TXM-20Ba for cameras with the 1:1 shaft, and the TXM-26B for older pre-1966 cameras without the 1:1 shaft such as the original Reflex, Rex-1, Rex-2 and Rex-3. We also made a plug-in crystal for Bolexes with a built-in motor, such as the EL and EBM, and the ESM motor, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in these.
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#5 banba ban

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 05:28 PM

I've used the Tobin TXM-24 crystal unit with an ESM motor and a RX5 camera for several years now and have always been happy with the results.

Guide audio is recorded on location and re recorded later, or if it is music video work the re record is not necessary.

The crystal unit/motor has never lost sync - it has worked well at preventing flicker from street lights/HMI's and the TXM-24 is switchable between 24/25 fps, so equally useful in 50 and 60 hz parts of the world.

Surprised to hear that it is not a popular item...
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#6 Nick Castronuova

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 02:19 PM

Is the Bolex still really loud if it has an electric motor?
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#7 banba ban

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 09:17 AM

Is the Bolex still really loud if it has an electric motor?



Yep - it is still fairly noisy.
Not sure what the decibel level is but I think too loud to realistically be trying to record location sync sound.

I've never gone down the route of blimp/barney/software to reduce camera noise - just recorded location sound as a guide and replaced it in the edit - fairly easy with experienced on camera talent. This has worked well for short pieces but would probably be impractical for longer form work.
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#8 anchorlessfilms

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 01:16 PM

if you would do adr then there would be no problems except getting good actors to match their mouths...
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#9 Craig Mieritz

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 05:00 PM

We have made a number of crystal motors for Bolex over the years. They occasionally come up on Ebay. The TXM-22A crystal motor for Arri 16-S/M is back in stock and there is some chance we may resume making one or two of the motors for Bolex.

The most likely to be re-animated (?) by Tobin Cinema Systems are the TXM-20Ba for cameras with the 1:1 shaft, and the TXM-26B for older pre-1966 cameras without the 1:1 shaft such as the original Reflex, Rex-1, Rex-2 and Rex-3. We also made a plug-in crystal for Bolexes with a built-in motor, such as the EL and EBM, and the ESM motor, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in these.


Clive-

I use the TXM-16V (@23.976) and am very pleased with it. Anyone with an EBM who is worried about drift should seriously consider one of his products.
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#10 Clive Tobin

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 05:29 PM

Clive-
I use the TXM-16V (@23.976) and am very pleased with it. Anyone with an EBM who is worried about drift should seriously consider one of his products.

Thanks for your support.

Owing to popular request here and elsewhere, we have made up another batch of the TXM-24 crystal control box for Bolex EBM, ESM and EL models. Included speeds are 24 and 25 FPS. The catalog page is here: http://www.tobincine...com/page61.html and as usual the instruction manual can be previewed also.
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#11 John King

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 12:34 PM

Is the Bolex still really loud if it has an electric motor?


Maybe I just got lucky, but a few months back I bought a Bolex EBM package, (converted to Super16 by Cameraspro) and the seller mentioned that the folks at Cameraspro mentioned how quiet it was for a Bolex. Anyway I did a practice load with some old exposed film and sure enough the camera was pretty quiet. I left the main door off and the lid to the 400ft. mag off so that I could see the film moving through and make sure there were no problems there. With the door and mag lid off the thing purred like a kitten, sure there was that slight little ticking sound, but nothing like what I had heard out of other Bolexes. I am confident that it will be easy to barney this camera with a blanket.

I don't know if the recent service job it got was an exceptionally good one, or maybe everybody was in a good mood that day at the Bolex factory when it was made, but the EBM I have is remarkably quiet. Also checked registration while the film was running through it. I watched the film as it came out from the gate at the bottom (just inside the lower loop former) I looked at the perf and it looked like it was sitting still, no jiggling or jumping about. Seeing perfectly well that film was advancing through the mechanism, I realised that the camera's registration must be good too.

Again I may be lucky, but I'll take luck. I'm really happy with it.

GO TEAM BOLEX!

JMK
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#12 Nick Mulder

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 12:44 AM

GO TEAM BOLEX!

JMK



ha ha - yeh

wooo!

Edited by Nick Mulder, 02 August 2008 - 12:46 AM.

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