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CP16r Please help!


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#1 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 05:44 AM

The Background

Okay, I'm in a bit of trouble as usual. Last night I was quite poorly because something weird happened to my leg. (It's definitely getting better now thankfully) I couldn't get to sleep so was up at 3am and I made the mistake of looking on ebay and I bought this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e...A:IT&ih=014

I think the illness was affecting my brain but also when I get ill in bizzare ways like this, I just get like "oh screw it I don't have long to live anyway" and my judgement becomes a little impaired.

While this is somewhat cheap for a cp16r, I guess this is partly because the seller has been honest enough to admit that it is a barely functioning piece of cinematic junk he has kept in a cupboard for a few years and never used (I'm reading between the lines but...)

Now it's not really all that bad, and I'm quite excited by the fact that apparently the camera has 1.185 markings in the viewfinder, but the thing is that my financial situation isn't exactly wonderful right now and it sounds like this camera at the very least, needs some basic maintenance, Oh yes, and the cost of shipping is quite scary.

What I'm wondering is if I can do any basic maintenance to the camera myself. Looking at the shape of the thing it seems like it might be possible to get in the camera from one side or the other which would be really, really wonderful as then I wouldn't have to disturb the lens mount or anything. I'd love to hear from anyone who might have been inside and can warn me of any spring loaded things or other stuff that might fly out and attempt to hide in the carpet or somewhere, and for that matter can advise on getting inside and lubrication points.

On the upside the seller describes the camera as making a steady hum which sounds like it is in better condition than some of the cp16's that people here have used but then perhaps it only sounds like a coffee grinder when it is full of film, or it only hums because the movement isn't actually moving and is rusted solid.

It's a bit silly but maybe I can make it all work out for the best somehow. It could really solve my problem with "the freezer" if I can get it going. Anyway I guess I should just feel good that my leg doesn't need to be amputated or anything horrible like that, so it's all a lucky escape really.

love

Freya
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#2 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 05:54 AM

I have some other questions I was curious about too but it was getting all a bit complicated in my last posting.

Can anyone tell me what size the filter thread is on the Angeneiux 10-120 with this camera?

Is it possible to get crystal sync mods to the motor? I'd really like to be crystal at 12.5 as well as 24/25 but I suspect this might mean replacing all the lectronics, and wouldn't be much in demand as it's already got crystal sync already. Can you tell when the camera is running at sync (a light?) or do you have to hope for the best?

Is the video tap port a rare feature?

Thanks for your help! :)

love

Freya
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#3 John Holland

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:42 AM

Hi Freya i would say a video tap port is rare on a CP16 , you sure it has 1.85 markings ? John .
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:29 AM

There's a sync speed light that warns if you're not running at sync speed.

I'd send the camera like at off for an overhaul. In regular daily use the CP16R really needed a service every six months otherwise it would get increasingly noisy The side does come off for servicing, inside there are a number of belts need to be checked and mechanics that do need a touch of grease.
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#5 Mike Rizos

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:11 PM

Hi
The lens with the camera is Angenieux 10-150 which takes 72mm filters, not the rare 10-120.
I believe only later CP-Rs with the halfmoon shutter came with a video port, although the optical path and mechanics seem the same.
The viewing screen probably has 1.85 markings along with projector aperture and TV safe area, otherwise it will have 1.66 markings.

The camera is easy to self service. The Operation and Maintenance manual that comes with explains how to open the side cover, replace the belts, set correct tension, etc. There is a spring that may fly out when you open the side cover, and that goes underneath the battery lock button, which will fall out itself. Also expect all the old insullation to have disintegraded. Just clean it carefully with acetone and replace it. Several sellers on ebay sell the stuff cheap.

Whitehouse and Cinema Products have parts and service these cameras. Bernie at super 16 services them also.
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#6 Mike Rizos

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:12 PM

error

Edited by Mike Rizos, 08 February 2008 - 01:14 PM.

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#7 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:12 PM

Hi Freya i would say a video tap port is rare on a CP16 , you sure it has 1.85 markings ? John .


Hiya John! :)

I'm not at all sure it has 1.85 markings, it's just something people keep saying on the internet. It sounds good tho! I guess I could always add my own if it didn't but I'd probably never end up doing so. You know how it is.

The camera is a CP16r which is the reflex version of the cp16. I guess the video tap could only be on really late cp16r's like the ones that have the nicer shutter or perhaps not I really don't know. This is something I read about but of which there is a lot of confusion. Some people say it's really hard to add a video tap. Others say it's really easy to add a video tap as it was designed with a special port to add a video tap. One company that makes video taps for it says they can add a video tap if there is already a port for the video tap, which implies that in quite a few cases there might not be. I'd be intrested to know more!

Do you have any experience with the cp16 John? I won't be offended if it was a bad experience. This camera is not much more expensive than a tobin motor after all when I think about it. ;)

I'm just not financially in a good way right now and need to sort my life out!

love

Freya

Edited by Freya Black, 08 February 2008 - 01:14 PM.

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#8 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:19 PM

There's a sync speed light that warns if you're not running at sync speed.

I'd send the camera like at off for an overhaul. In regular daily use the CP16R really needed a service every six months otherwise it would get increasingly noisy The side does come off for servicing, inside there are a number of belts need to be checked and mechanics that do need a touch of grease.


Thanks Brian that's good news about the light!

I'd like to do something about giving it an overhaul of course which is why I'm asking.
I'm short on cash tho and I'm trying to work out the best way to go about things.

A number of belts sounds like a pain, a bit like trying to fix an old tape recorder only worse and more critical!
The side coming off sounds like good news tho, as then I can avoid getting things out of alignment and keep things simple.

love

Freya
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#9 John Holland

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:33 PM

Freya yes i have shot with a CP 16 not the reflex one you have , the one i used had a 10-120 Angenieux with a side finder this was a long time ago .they are /were good cameras very comfortable on the shoulder hand held , never taken the side off though . Hope it works out for you good price . Might be cheaper to go pick it up ! rather than shipping costs . John :rolleyes:
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#10 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:33 PM

Hi
The lens with the camera is Angenieux 10-150 which takes 72mm filters, not the rare 10-120.


Oops sorry typing without thinking.
72mm is excellent news! :)

I believe only later CP-Rs with the halfmoon shutter came with a video port, although the optical path and mechanics seem the same.


bother! Oh well never mind!

The viewing screen probably has 1.85 markings along with projector aperture and TV safe area, otherwise it will have 1.66 markings.

The camera is easy to self service. The Operation and Maintenance manual that comes with explains how to open the side cover, replace the belts, set correct tension, etc. There is a spring that may fly out when you open the side cover, and that goes underneath the battery lock button, which will fall out itself. Also expect all the old insullation to have disintegraded. Just clean it carefully with acetone and replace it. Several sellers on ebay sell the stuff cheap.

Whitehouse and Cinema Products have parts and service these cameras. Bernie at super 16 services them also.


Ah! Our postings crossed and you answered some of my questions! :)
Thanks for your help!

Thats great news that the camera is somewhat easy to self service. I read instructions for lubricating the Konvas and I was like, "you want me to do what with the lens mount!???". I would just like to try and do basic things to try and look after it if I can, but it may be in need of a proper overhaul at this point. Typical that they would put a spring somewhere to mess with you tho. They always do stuff like that! *sigh* forewarned is forearmed. I'm really glad to hear the manual thing included instructions.

It's funny you mention insulation as I was only just thinking this morning, like hey if it's a self blimped camera, how are they sealing the thing if I open it up, and will it be something that has rotted away into gunk! Seems like I was thinking right. Any idea what I could replace it with?

Sounds like excellent news. Worst case scenario I can fix it up well enough to run for a short time and then send it for a proper overhaul a bit later!

Any idea how much servicing might cost at any of these places vaguely?
The trouble is that I'm in the u.k. so once it is here it's more likely to end up in Wales or with Olex or something.

...and obviously I don't have a lot of money right now.

Other than the video tap, it's sounding quite positive! :)

love

Freya
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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:37 PM

Freya yes i have shot with a CP 16 not the reflex one you have , the one i used had a 10-120 Angenieux with a side finder this was a long time ago .they are /were good cameras very comfortable on the shoulder hand held , never taken the side off though . Hope it works out for you good price . Might be cheaper to go pick it up ! rather than shipping costs . John :rolleyes:


Tell me about it! I'm thinking about picking it up too, I got into this situation with a nice cheap eclair from Finland tho and it all got really silly and in the end it never happened.
OTOH... I can get it shipped surface for $150 which isn't so bad, it's just I'd much rather send it airmail and usually theres not much difference but in this case there is, almost twice as much.

love

Freya
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#12 John Holland

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:44 PM

Freya is it the US or Canada ? if its the states you could ask Phil Rhodes to bring back for you next time he is there !!! x
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#13 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 02:57 PM

Freya is it the US or Canada ? if its the states you could ask Phil Rhodes to bring back for you next time he is there !!! x


I'm afraid it's canada. I guess I could get David Mullen to pick it up and bring it back to the states, then phil could pick it up on his visit, but that seems like it's becoming quite compliated. ;)

love

Freya
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#14 Freya Black

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 04:37 PM

Well I seem to have worked out quite a bit and it's sounding good.

I'm still wondering if it's possible to add crystal sync at other speeds, where and what kind of replacement insulation I can get, and what the typical price of a basic service is for these cameras in the states.

If anyone can tell me more or wants to tell me more about the CP16r then I'd be happy to hear from you. :)

love

Freya
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#15 Jim Exton

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 04:50 PM

Well I seem to have worked out quite a bit and it's sounding good.

I'm still wondering if it's possible to add crystal sync at other speeds, where and what kind of replacement insulation I can get, and what the typical price of a basic service is for these cameras in the states.

If anyone can tell me more or wants to tell me more about the CP16r then I'd be happy to hear from you. :)

love

Freya



It looks like the camera you bought does not have the video tap port option. This is something that was built in. There will be a steel plate on top of the camera above the lens mount that you remove and install a video tap port. Then you buy and attach a camera to it.

As far as servicing, you can have it overhauled at Whitehouse Audio Visual for I think $1200.

If this camera has not been serviced in awhile, it might be real noisy.

You can also buy the two internal belts you will need and replace those yourself. This might be all you need to get it running really good.
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#16 Jim Exton

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 04:51 PM

Oh, and the camera does have 1:85 markings on the fiber optic screen. Along with full 16mm and TV safe.
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#17 Mike Rizos

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 04:56 PM

Hi

The typical rebuilt including paint job goes for a little over $1000.

For foam insulation just get something for still cameras like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't know how involved it would be to crystal at other speeds.
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#18 Chris Keth

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 10:30 PM

I shot my first couple films on a CP16R. It was a pretty good camera though I hated the way the viewfinder image would tilt as you moved the viewfinder out from a handheld sort of position. Really solid, pretty akin to a cast iron cinder block that happens to run film. The one I used was on the noisy side but I know for a fact that it was not serviced as often as it probably should have been. It was showing age pretty bad by the time I used it. Good luck with it, Freya. A little elbow grease and I think you'll have a great camera.
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#19 Freya Black

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:18 PM

Thanks everyone!

I'm really optimistic about this!
It turns out whitehouse AV sell a servicing kit with new belts etc, so with this, some sewing machine oil and hopefully some of that weird arri grease (if I can track it down). I'm hoping I can look after it a bit. It seems like it will be a lot easier to service than many cameras which will be great as obviously I'm in the u.k. and it's different here. Well you know, just ask Phil. ;)

I want to say a big thankyou to everyone who helped me out on this thread. I'm sure I will have lots more questions later but it's looking good.

Can't believe how much my luck has changed this year! (Last year was so bad that I can't possibly express)

love

Freya
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#20 Matt Pacini

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:07 PM

Paul Hillman at Visual Products services these also (did mine, the guy is a genius!), and put a video tap on mine as well.

He does Super 16 mods on cameras, regardless of which shutter it comes with.
As to crystal sync at other speeds, I'm not sure why you think you need that.

If properly serviced, the CP16 is very quiet.
The thing to look out for though is this; if you see little rubbery bits floating around the bottom of the camera, that is your fishbone belt gone to poop.
If that happens, don't just get a new belt, because this means the gear that controls the mag belt is bad and needs replaced.
Visual Products has those too.

MP
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