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Support for Anamorphic Square Fronts


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#1 Freya Black

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 10:37 AM

Hiya!
I'm expecting I may have a shoot lined up soon with my Konvas possibly.
As you may know I have a set of Anamorphic square fronts. It would be nice to use these but I have never worked out any kind of method for supporting the lenses. The front elements seem to just mount loosely to the primes, and will just fall off as they aren't even actually attached so it seems like they will need to be mounted solidly.

Can anyone tell me how they would be mounted normally. I need to go home and have a peek. There might be holes on the bottom for rods. What size would the russian rods be? (I'm not assuming anything here! ) ;)

I'm now facing up to the fact that I will almost certainly have to make something to secure everything, and possibly to make a matte box too. (I'm shooting exteriors and outside on anamorphics without a matte box, well it seems like a recipie for trub based on my past experience).

Has anyone made anything in this direction or can anyone who has succesfully secured the lenses to the Konvas tell me more about how they went about it? If theres more than one of you out there, I would love to hear about different experiences.

Also on a slight tangent, but would 4x4 filters be big enough to use with Anamorphic square fronts?

love

Freya
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:07 PM

Hiya!
I'm expecting I may have a shoot lined up soon with my Konvas possibly.
As you may know I have a set of Anamorphic square fronts. It would be nice to use these but I have never worked out any kind of method for supporting the lenses. The front elements seem to just mount loosely to the primes, and will just fall off as they aren't even actually attached so it seems like they will need to be mounted solidly.

Freya

Hi Freya.
What kinds of Konvas you mean ? Konvas-1M or Konvas-2M ?
The russian anamorphic lenses can have " NAS " and " BAS " type.
NAS type consist from two parts, front anamorphic attachment and spherical prime lens ( two bodies ).
BAS type have front anamorphic attachment and spherical prime lens at one body of lens.

I think, you told about set of NAS anamorphic lenses of Konvas-1, 1M cameras.
This is lenses use of special support.

[attachment=3666:support.jpg]

[attachment=3667:0_NAS_35...was_1m_1.jpg]
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#3 Freya Black

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 05:09 PM

Hi Freya.
What kinds of Konvas you mean ? Konvas-1M or Konvas-2M ?
The russian anamorphic lenses can have " NAS " and " BAS " type.
NAS type consist from two parts, front anamorphic attachment and spherical prime lens ( two bodies ).
BAS type have front anamorphic attachment and spherical prime lens at one body of lens.

I think, you told about set of NAS anamorphic lenses of Konvas-1, 1M cameras.
This is lenses use of special support.


Yes! Nas, Square fronts! I have a 1M and an older grey Konvas camera that people used to call automats, that take rheostat or hand crank. Oddly I want to use the latter of the two in this instance.

By a weird coincidence I just found the little bracket you just showed me in with my 35mm lens! It's a bit odd tho because the little pokey bit that sticks into the groove down the middle, doesn't fit unless you attach it back to front so it sticks out the front of the lens! It also looks like it would be too small to reach the camera tripod mount, even if mounted the sensible way round. It could just have been machined wonky but I wondered if it might be supposed to be like that. Hmmmm

love

Freya
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#4 Freya Black

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 05:42 PM

Yay! It works! Thanks so much Olex, thats really good news.

I'm still puzzled by the little button thing tho. Mine attaches just like yours in the picture, which means that the little button thing isn't in the groove at all but sticks out the front, seemingly doing nothing!

Also, I notice that the 2m matte boxes are very common and turn up on ebay cheap frequently. Do I need a special mattebox for the square fronts (because they are square) and could I use one of those 2m matte boxes even tho I have a 1m? I asume that rods from the matte box slide into the round holes at the front of the little adaptor?

love

Freya
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#5 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 08:14 AM

By a weird coincidence I just found the little bracket you just showed me in with my 35mm lens!


If you will have more questions, to send me pictures from your lenses and picture of this bracket. ) olex.camera@gmail.com
The front anamoprhic attachment must have special plate with "dovetail" at bottom.

The small button can be protective button, from dropping of font attachment from bracket.

2M matte box not compatible with 1M camera, can be use, but will need modify of base plate.
I recommed you to searct of 1M mate box.
But, 1M mate box create for spherical lenses, have holder of filters 75x75 mm.

To use of matte box with anamoprhic lenses can be problem, because, anamorphic lenses have big angle of view at horizontal line.
You can test of matte box with 50mm and 75 mm lens only.
If you will need use of filters, i think, the filters need set at hand made holders on front side of lens.
The next edition of BAS lenses with square front glass ( simialar of two body versions of NAS lenses ) had special front glass attachments for shoot at short distance and had holes for set of attachmnets on front side of lens.

The other idea, you can set of filter before of front glass of spherical lens.
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#6 Freya Black

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 09:53 AM

If you will have more questions, to send me pictures from your lenses and picture of this bracket. ) olex.camera@gmail.com
The front anamoprhic attachment must have special plate with "dovetail" at bottom.


Yes I have the special dovetail and the bracket I have is identical to yours and even sticks out the front in the same way. My setup now looks identical to the photos you sent me! :) Totally the same.

The small button can be protective button, from dropping of font attachment from bracket.


If you look under the dovetail thing there is a groove that this button appears to fit into. On my setup this only fits into the groove if you put the attachment on back to front, and the groove doesn't make sense anyway as the button is at the end of the bracket which is not under the dovetail, just like in your picture.

I've been trying to work out why this might be. It occurs to me that if for some reason they were mounting the anamorphic to it's own tripod seperate from the main one then this groove might suddenly make sense and you would then have the attachment mounted back to front. I suppose a setup like that might take some of the weight off the main tripod and it might make it possible to change the rear primes more quickly, but it seems more than a little odd, but that's my best guess so far.

2M matte box not compatible with 1M camera, can be use, but will need modify of base plate.
I recommed you to searct of 1M mate box.
But, 1M mate box create for spherical lenses, have holder of filters 75x75 mm.

To use of matte box with anamoprhic lenses can be problem, because, anamorphic lenses have big angle of view at horizontal line.
You can test of matte box with 50mm and 75 mm lens only.
If you will need use of filters, i think, the filters need set at hand made holders on front side of lens.
The next edition of BAS lenses with square front glass ( simialar of two body versions of NAS lenses ) had special front glass attachments for shoot at short distance and had holes for set of attachmnets on front side of lens.

The other idea, you can set of filter before of front glass of spherical lens.


It looks like I will have to make my own mattebox then, if not to hold filters, at least to keep the light off the anamorphics. My experience with anamorphics in the past has been that they love to flare! However I've used much cheaper/nastier anamorphics in the past too so maybe the square fronts won't be as bad! ;)

I must check that my lenses are definitely NAS. Now that you describe the little holes on the sides, I seem to remember seeing these on one of my lesnses!

love

Freya
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#7 Freya Black

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 10:10 AM

This Mattebox seems to have a funny dovetail thing like the one on the square front. Would this not attach?

2M MatteBox

Of course then there is the issue of the rear of the matte box which is circular whereas square fronts, well they aren't circular are they, hence the name! ;)

Thanks so much for your help Olex. I feel soooooo much closer to getting this all together now. I've got the lens one the camera and now I just need to work out what I'm doing for a matte box. (Trip to the workshop I think!)

It's looking groovy now tho! :)

love

Freya
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#8 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:52 AM

Freya, that's a 2m mattebox and you have a 1m camera (actually a KSR-1 but same turret set up) that matte-box is for sphericals not square-front anamorphics. I actually bought a spherical mattebox designed for the 1m (I also have a KSR-1)

Posted Image

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The problem I then ran into is there are 2 small pins that slide into corresponding holes in the 1m camera body base that the KSR-1 doesn't have so I'm faced with the decision as to whether to have the camera body drilled with the appropriate hole the accommodate the matte-box baseplate pins or to remove the pins and glue on a piece of non slip surface material or rubber and hope the matte box doesn't slide around, tough decision though I'm leaning towards having the base drilled. I also have the exact same set of 2 piece anamophics as you have, I am missing the dovetail support for the 50 and 75mm and the focusing arm:

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This is an image of the 2 piece anamorphics with a focusing arm on it:

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So THAT'S something I'll have to find. I just bought the standard Dovetail support from Raf Camera and It's on it's way here. What I was told id that for the square fronts a Kinor anamorphic matte-box would be the best solution for the square front anamorphics.

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 17 February 2008 - 02:56 AM.

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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:02 AM

Freya, that's a 2m mattebox and you have a 1m camera (actually a KSR-1 but same turret set up) that matte-box is for sphericals not square-front anamorphics. I actually bought a spherical mattebox designed for the 1m (I also have a KSR-1)


Yeah I know! It's just that the dovetail thing on it looks like it would attach to the support bar thing on the anamorphics. Of course the lens mount is probably not in the same place on the 2m (or maybe it is, dunno?) and the big problem is the rear of the thing is obviously round, which isn't so good for attaching to rectangular lenses! ;)

I'm expecting I will have to make a mattebox. It's going to be hard tho having no idea how it would connect to rectangular lenses, especially when the 2 anamorphic elements appear to be of different size and shape!

The problem I then ran into is there are 2 small pins that slide into corresponding holes in the 1m camera body base that the KSR-1 doesn't have so I'm faced with the decision as to whether to have the camera body drilled with the appropriate hole the accommodate the matte-box baseplate pins or to remove the pins and glue on a piece of non slip surface material or rubber and hope the matte box doesn't slide around, tough decision though I'm leaning towards having the base drilled. I also have the exact same set of 2 piece anamophics as you have, I am missing the dovetail support for the 50 and 75mm and the focusing arm:


Yes no focussing arms here either. Guess they go missing easily. :(
I gave some thought to your problem and it might be that Velcro stick on pads could do the trick instead of a rubber pad. That way it would actually be sort of secured.

I know what you mean about the holes as I have a support arm for my zoom lens. If it makes you feel better I can tell you that even on my 1M the holes are too small for the pins on the support so I would have to file the pins down and I'm not even sure there is as many holes as there should be either! Konvai vary an awful lot more than people imagine! Drilling holes would be nice if you can get it right!

So THAT'S something I'll have to find. I just bought the standard Dovetail support from Raf Camera and It's on it's way here. What I was told id that for the square fronts a Kinor anamorphic matte-box would be the best solution for the square front anamorphics.


Now that is a hot tip! I might not be able to find one but if I can find a picture of one I might have a better idea of what I'm making!

Konvai are full of mysteries! Apart from the question of the weird button that never meets its groove unless the support is mounted backwards I'm wondering what the circular holes that appear to take rods are for. If we look at that 2m Mattebox, it has the triangular connector thing instead, and your mattebox just connects to the tripod mount, where do the rods come into it all?!! :)

love

Freya
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#10 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 01:33 AM

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There ya go! The velcro idea is interesting but I really like the idea of the stability of pins. What I'd do is have a machine shop do the actual drilling to very precise specifications. It may cost something but it should work perfectly and be aligned to exactly the right place diameter and depth, which is something I don't trust myself doing. I also have to have an adapter built to use my 35H base plate with my 35C camera, that's gonna run 200 bucks or more. I wish I could find a shot of the original 35C baseplate so I could try and find one.
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#11 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 01:48 AM

Here are the rod supports for that Kinor mattebox setup:

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This is the 15mm baseplate setup,


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and this is the swing out rod set up. (that is NOT my camera BTW)

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 18 February 2008 - 01:52 AM.

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#12 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 03:15 AM

Posted Image


This is factory made anamorphic mate box of Kinor-35H camera and must be use with support parts ( base plate with 15 mm rods, rod's suport ) from spherical set of mate box of Kinor-35H.


This is Konvas-2M with support and spherical mate box of Kinor-35H camera.
The anamorphic mate box of Kinor-35H have similar support.
[attachment=3682:Konvas__Komp_1.jpg]
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