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Dented 35mm 1000' Film Cans - Problem?


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#1 Wai Choy

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 02:44 PM

I was lucky enough to get six 1000' rolls of 35mm Kodak Vision2 donated by Eastman Kodak, but the catch is that the cans are dented.

My contact person said that this should not be a problem, but I don't want to take a risk if there is one.

Should the film in the cans be okay? They're completely new except they have dents in them.

Thanks!

Wai
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 02:51 PM

I was lucky enough to get six 1000' rolls of 35mm Kodak Vision2 donated by Eastman Kodak, but the catch is that the cans are dented.

My contact person said that this should not be a problem, but I don't want to take a risk if there is one.

Should the film in the cans be okay? They're completely new except they have dents in them.

Thanks!

Wai


I have shot cans like this and we have used dented cans from Kodak as scratch test film quite a bit at Cinelab. I have seen some very badly dented cans and there have been marks on a few reels of film from these badly dented cans. If the can has a mild dent I would say it would be ok if the thing is crushed you might want to spool off the outside few hundred feet where the dent has impacted the film, especially if you are shooting an important shot.

Good Luck

-Rob-
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#3 Wai Choy

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 03:18 PM

Thanks for the response.

Can you feel with your fingers on the film if it has been damaged? Like when you have the roll in the changing tent, can you feel bends/dents in the film? I would hope that you could just keep spooling off film until it doesn't feel damaged anymore. Is that possible?

And I'm assuming that if the dents are on the surface of the can and not the rim, then the film is pretty much worthless. Am I right?

I'll be picking up the film cans tomorrow.

I guess the only way to know if the dents are bad or not (since I have no frame of reference) would be to upload pictures of the cans and get your opinion on it, since you seem to be quite familiar with this scenario.

I'll post the pics ASAP tomorrow and would appreciate it if you'd let me know what you think.

Thanks again!

Edited by Wai Choy, 21 February 2008 - 03:23 PM.

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#4 Henri Titchen

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 02:32 AM

I have received dented cans in the past also. I paid for a dip/clip test which revealed only very minor compression fogging around the sprocket holes. In my case it was nothing to worry about.

I suggest a dip/clip test might help you to decide if the film is badly damaged. These tests are ususally inexpensive.

Henry.
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#5 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 02:48 PM

Thank you everyone for your help.

Here's an update:

I picked up 6 rolls today and thankfully there are barely any dents on the canisters, and the ones that there are are very minor.

I have one last question. What do emulsion numbers mean?

They are all Kodak Vision2 5217 but some of the rolls are different emulsion numbers. I have:

Emulsion number 106, 107, and 128.

Can you please tell me what this means? Does this mean that the film is different in any way?

Thanks again.

Wai
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#6 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 03:22 PM

Thank you everyone for your help.

Here's an update:

I picked up 6 rolls today and thankfully there are barely any dents on the canisters, and the ones that there are are very minor.

I have one last question. What do emulsion numbers mean?

They are all Kodak Vision2 5217 but some of the rolls are different emulsion numbers. I have:

Emulsion number 106, 107, and 128.

Can you please tell me what this means? Does this mean that the film is different in any way?

Thanks again.

Wai


It does not sound like you will have any problems with these cans, the emulsion numbers are basically "batch" numbers and should not effect the look of the film...

-Rob-
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#7 John Brawley

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 03:38 PM

Should the film in the cans be okay? They're completely new except they have dents in them.



If they've got dents because they've been dropped then you might find all the shots will be out of focus....

jb
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#8 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

I remember someone telling me once that if you slowly shake a dented film can back and forth and you can feel that the roll is moving back and forth you should be OK. It's when the dent in the can is deep enough that it is constantly pushing on the film that it can be a problem. Of course, this is just what I heard years ago....it could be wrong.
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#9 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:02 PM

If they've got dents because they've been dropped then you might find all the shots will be out of focus....

jb


To what extent is that true? Should I not shoot with these rolls then? I don't want to take a risk on having my shots messed up if that's a danger.

I've attached photos of the dents on the cans. They all have dents only on one part of the canister and they're all about the same. They came in a single box, so I assume that they were all crushed from the top down, which is why the dents look similar.

I know it's a little hard to see, but can you please take a look and let me know the extent of the damage? There are no dents other than the outside rim area of the canister.

The rim has been crushed in a little bit and the canister top has been pushed in a bit near the rim.

THE GOOD NEWS: Even if the crushing destroyed the film, it would only have destroyed about 100-200 feet maximum of film.

SO, MY MAIN CONCERN IS: Is the film grain or anything else potentially compromised by the crushing, dropping, or whatever it was that caused the dents?

Please let me know. Thanks!

Wai

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#10 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:04 PM

Here's another photo

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#11 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:06 PM

By the way, when I shake the canister I can definitely feel and hear the film move, but I can also feel some resistance in the area where the canister was crushed.

Edited by Wai Choy, 22 February 2008 - 05:07 PM.

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#12 John Brawley

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:10 PM

To what extent is that true? Should I not shoot with these rolls then? I don't want to take a risk on having my shots messed up if that's a danger.




Sorry...that was my lame attempt at humour. You won't have any focus problems.

jb
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#13 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 05:30 PM

Sorry...that was my lame attempt at humour. You won't have any focus problems.

jb


Hahah yeah I wondered about that but just asked to be sure. I thought maybe it would have something to do with the silver halides shifting from the impact.......or something like that..........

So As long as I spool off the film that's under the crushed area, the rest should be good to shoot for sure?

Any other potential concerns?
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#14 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:00 PM

Sorry...that was my lame attempt at humour. You won't have any focus problems.

jb



Reminds me of a student customer at Cinelab who insisted that we had not bolted our film processor down properly and that was why his film was out of focus :lol: We got allot of laughs from that one. I have a can of 5218 at the lab that we have been using for scratch tests and it was hit hard, really crushed the can, and there have been a few marks on the emulsion at the beginning of the roll and the rest is fine... Obviously if you are shooting a studio picture you would not take a chance on even a small dent but for and indie shooter it's ok..



-Rob-
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#15 John Sprung

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 06:13 PM

Here's another photo

Those dents are nothing to worry about. I've seen worse and had no problem at all. Relax and enjoy your shoot.



-- J.S.
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#16 Wai Choy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:08 PM

Cool thanks for the clarification.

Is there a way to tell how old the film is by looking at the code numbers on the canisters?

The rolls are from 3 different emulsion numbers so I assume that they were made at different times.

Should I bother having them tested? I assume they've been stored properly, since I picked them up from the Kodak New York Warehouse
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