Jump to content


Photo

Film out from HDV


  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 Jon Myers

Jon Myers
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • Steadicam Operator

Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:12 AM

Has anyone done a film out from HDV? I was wondering if there's anything special that I need to worry about while shooting? Thanks in advance.

Jon Myers
  • 0

#2 tylerhawes

tylerhawes
  • Guests

Posted 12 March 2008 - 08:45 PM

Yes. I think it's more of the same as with any video originated footage, which means you'll really benefit most by color grading the footage first in a DI projection suite that is calibrated to the film recorder and print stock you will use. Also, it would be very helpful to have special processing to treat the footage's 4:2:0 chroma sampling artifacts. The color will be much more filmic when put through a film LUT, but that will be taken care of in the DI suite and the film print. You'll just need to make sure that the digital master has the LUT baked in.

So my main point is, what you have to worry about is being able to post it right. Of course I'd say that since I'm a colorist, but it's still true :)

--

Tyler Hawes, DI Colorist
Liquid DI, Santa Monica
www.liquidcompanies.com
tyler -at- liquidcompanies.com
  • 0

#3 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 01 May 2008 - 05:55 AM

Tyler,

I'm still pretty new to this world, but I'd like jump in and ask a few ?'s if I may.

So does a film LUT essentially provide "film color" replacement values for the "video color" values? Put simply: "When this color shows up, replace it with this one b/c it looks more filmic."

Are lookup tables used in the YUV colorspace, or only RGB for making DI's? For example, would a lookup table be used in Avid Media Composer for a project that will be for broadcast and DVD relase only?

Thanks very much for your help.
  • 0

#4 tylerhawes

tylerhawes
  • Guests

Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:59 PM

I just noticed that you asked for info on what to do while shooting, and I just went off talking about post. Obviously there is a wealth of info here and elsewhere from people with more camera experience than I, so make sure you take advantage of that. In general for digital the common advice is to underexpose by a stop or two and then bring the mids back up in post. This leaves your highlights more protected and avoids those white blobby highlights so common to bad video.

Avid Media Composer doesn't support LUTs AFAIK. It's unusual to have them in the edit suite, although with newer digital cinema workflows it is starting to happen.

Your description of what a LUT does is sort of right, only the decisions of what the LUT changes aren't so arbitrary. It's more like building a fence around the color gamut of the film stock you're emulating and not allowing the digital colors to go out of bounds. So for instance a digital pure green, which is impossible with film, will be slightly desaturated. Also the LUT can slow down how fast the color becomes saturated as it approaches the maximum of the gamut, so you get a rolloff of saturation rather than hitting a brick wall limit.

All of this is based on measurements taken from the film stock and is combined with measurements of the projector in the DI suite and perhaps information about the source footage. It's very complicated and there has been much written about it. But bottom line is to make your footage look its best, you need someone who understands all this color sciences and how to use it. Simply having a LUT won't help - and can actually hurt - your post unless it's the right one used in the right way.
  • 0

#5 Saul Rodgar

Saul Rodgar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1682 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:34 AM

Has anyone done a film out from HDV? I was wondering if there's anything special that I need to worry about while shooting? Thanks in advance.

Jon Myers


While I haven't done a film out yet, I can tell you what I was told when I inquired about it last year. I was thinking about doing one but abandoned the idea in favor of just originating on film.

The highlights clip a lot faster on video than on film. Blown out highlights on video will never recover detail like film would. That would be the first thing to keep in mind when you shoot video for film out.

I would use a 35mm adapter as well if your camera is 1/3" chip, to get a more film-like shallow depth of field.

Lateral motion is handled differently by video, I would avoid to much panning, jarring moves, sudden objects coming into the frame especially with long GOP, MPEG 2 based HDV compression.

This subject has been covered here before, I would suggest doing a search to find out more.

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 02 May 2008 - 11:36 AM.

  • 0


Glidecam

Wooden Camera

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Technodolly

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

CineTape

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Opal

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam