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Ripped perfs on Beaulieu 4008


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#1 Paul Ash

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:02 AM

Hello everybody,

Took my newly-arrived, newly-CLAd, spiffy 4008II out for a shoot and lo, halfway through the first roll of E64, the frame counter stops counting and the viewfinder goes dark. Pull the trigger again, the camera runs but the frame counter does nothing. So I remove the cartridge and find that one of the perfs has torn. I wind the film on slightly by hand, put the cartridge back in and run the camera. It seems to be OK, but the experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

It was an extremely hot day (plus 35degC) and the camera became quite warm in the sun. Would this have been a factor?

What could cause this? And are torn perfs and lost shots something I will have to live with? I don't ever recall having a problem on my Nizo 4080 (and then in horrible conditions - high humidity and very hot and dusty).

Cheers and thanks

PK
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#2 Fran Kuhn

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 06:27 PM

Paul,

I had that happen with a roll of Fuji 64T that Spectra gave me to test two summers ago. The perfs tore out twice. Each time they did, I pulled the cart, advanced the film and tried again.I told the guys at Spectra said they were going to experiment with some kind of cartridge coating to help solve the problem. Be sure to inform your lab before you have this damaged roll processed! I think torn perfs can jeopardize the rest of the film in the processing line.

BTW can I ask who did the clean/lube/adjust? The reason I ask is I had some problems with one of the Los Angeles area Beaulieu repair shops. The camera was repaired three times and I continued to have drive malfunctions (among other things). I finally sent it to Bjorn Andersson in Sweden who got it running perfectly, then later to Bernie O'Doherty at Super16 Inc. who did that LaserBrighten focus screen treatment as well as a CLA. Great work by these both of these guys, if that helps.

-Fran
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#3 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 07:31 PM

Are torn perfs and lost shots something I will have to live with?


No. I never encountered or suffered from a situation as described by you in 25 years of dealing with S8.


What could cause this?


- camera motor too high-rev'ing (unlikely, though, as you got a Björn-CLA'd 4008)
- E-64 cartridge suffering from one-off malfunction
- E-64 cartridge coming out of a bad production batch recalled by Kodak last year
(double-check with forum entries here and on filmshooting.com ? me, never had a bad E-64
cart in the bought baskets, though... - maybe I am just a lucky punk here :D ...)
- a combination of those


I don't ever recall having a problem on my Nizo 4080 (and then in horrible conditions - high humidity and very hot and dusty).


Don't forget while looking back maybe with rosey glasses at the 4080, that their belt-driven systems are prone to sudden death as the belt's rubber disintegrates increasingly often now - esp. in extreme environmental situations. Dito for the series 2 Bauer S 715 XL microcomputer that was no longer cog-driven (series 1) but used a belt-drive like the Nizo sound cameras as well.
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#4 Jim Carlile

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:21 AM

There have been some reported problems with 64T cartridges that behave just this way. Kodak has been having troubles in their new Colorado plant, especially with 64T.

BTW can I ask who did the clean/lube/adjust? The reason I ask is I had some problems with one of the Los Angeles area Beaulieu repair shops. The camera was repaired three times and I continued to have drive malfunctions (among other things).


Are there Beaulieu shops in L.A.? The only one I know of would be Pro8.

As to bad perfs and the lab, labs don't use sprockets, they use rollers instead, for just this reason, so it won't be a problem.
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#5 Fran Kuhn

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:53 AM

Are there Beaulieu shops in L.A.? The only one I know of would be Pro8.

As to bad perfs and the lab, labs don't use sprockets, they use rollers instead, for just this reason, so it won't be a problem.


Hi Jim,

Not Pro 8, though they've continually mystified me with many other issues and I generally try to avoid going there except when I occasionally use their repackaged Kodak Vision filmstock. I would prefer not to say who I had the repair problem with on the forum. He's a really good guy, but very, very slow. He, or whoever was doing the "repair" work, created more problems with my camera than when I first took in in. Cost me a lot of dough and time and I eventually had to get it to Bjorn to finally fix the thing.

The only reason I mention the torn sprocket holes being a concern to the lab is because that's what Doug and Jerry at Spectra told me. They were bummed when I told them, but said they were grateful I had mentioned it as it could cause them trouble in processing. I did not ask them to elaborate, but I've always had a sense that labs like to know in advance about any issues with film damage and that's the only reason I mentioned it.

-Fran
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#6 Paul Ash

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 04:31 AM

BTW can I ask who did the clean/lube/adjust? I finally sent it to Bjorn Andersson in Sweden who got it running perfectly


Hi Fran, Michael and Jim,

Thanks for the ruminations. I think it's a bad cart and the dealer agrees. FWIW, I have pasted his comments below.

QUOTE: Hi Paul
I further enquired into this issue to try and shed some light on it. This is what a Beaulieu specialist replied:

"Hello Julien
I agree with your theory.
It sounds very reasonable that a faulty cartridge can cause this problem.
Another thing might be that the cartridge need much higher take up friction for winding this cartridge.
There can be two reasons for blocking cartridges:
Film can stick before the claw.
Film can stick after the claw and stop the take up spindle.

I use to do like this when I put a new cartridge in camera: I put a finger on film in the opening to see if the film ?is stacked to the pressure plate?, I also shake the cartridge to hear if film is rattling in cartridge and finish with turning the take up spindle to tightening the free film around the take up spool. It´s only possibly to turn the take up spindle, in cartridge, one way." ENDS

I believe Bjorn did the CLA on my camera and in all other espects it seems to be running perfectly. Anyway, I'm going to roll some B&W through it at a wedding next month, and then probably switch to the negative stocks for the doccie.

Michael, yep, there are only rose-coloured specs for the Nizo and that particular job (you'll understand when you see the story in Super 8 Today :rolleyes: ). Otherwise, I had some real issues with that camera. Of course, I didn't help things along when I lost the base plate screw in the Mozambican bush which meant we couldn't mount the thing on a tripod thereafter.

Cheers for now

PK
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#7 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 07:29 AM

Gosh, I am now seriously looking forward to reading your shooting report in a forthcoming issue of Super 8 Today (glad you put it to Chris ;) ).

Also thanks for the extensive feedback and what measures you did to make sure that everyone involved has all relevant info. That really is gold-worthy today with so many conflicting info around, e.g. the Colorado issue I heard about from various legit sources, but I never got a substantiated explanation what exactly the issue is there, whether it involves the tooling, the plastic raw materials, the film emulsions used for the stock, or work processes that lead to patchy quality control...

As regards the pre-shoot ritual and dealing with S8 carts, the pinned FAQ-style thread in thsu subforum deals with that as follows:

Do some tapping of the unwrapped cartridge ? preferably the lower part of the labelled side ? gently yet decisively against your open palm three to four times and then lightly shake the cartridge out from a twist of your hand a couple of times. This is done so that the film can unravel a bit from its originally firm winding when coming out of the manufacturing plant and cold storage.

Additionally ? as Alessandro Machi suggested ? you can advance the cartridge spindle by a few extra turns manually, as this should indicate any potential problems with it. After inserting the cartridge into the camera, just shoot 3 to 4 seconds of film at 18 fps or 24 fps blank, doublechecking your camera's indicator means for good transport.


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