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HVX with arri tilt/shift


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#1 andy patch

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:51 PM

I was wondering if the Arri tilt/shift...

http://www.fletch.co...iftandtilt.html

...can be used with the HVX. I would assume i would need an intermediate adapter to go from the HVX to the arri adapter (M2 or mini35) which would mean 2 adapters on top of the lenses... ultimately killing all my light. Any other way to get the tilt/shift effect? (apart from still lenses and a 35 adapter) thanks.
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#2 Chris Keth

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:26 PM

You are correct, to use that tilt shift, you would need something to project the image on, i.e. a redrock, brevis, P&S technic, et cetera.

The tilt shift apparatus doesn't really eats any light, though I don't know how fast the lenses for it are. It's just a lens that can move in very particular ways, not additional optics.
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#3 andy patch

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:18 PM

You are correct, to use that tilt shift, you would need something to project the image on, i.e. a redrock, brevis, P&S technic, et cetera.

The tilt shift apparatus doesn't really eats any light, though I don't know how fast the lenses for it are. It's just a lens that can move in very particular ways, not additional optics.



As far as I can tell the Arri system is just an adapter, allowing the shift/tilt effect with regular PL mount primes, as opposed to using the shift/tilt lenses from say still photography...
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#4 Chris Keth

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:35 AM

As far as I can tell the Arri system is just an adapter, allowing the shift/tilt effect with regular PL mount primes, as opposed to using the shift/tilt lenses from say still photography...


Pretty much. I forgot to mention, the amount of light lost depends on the scale of reproduction you want to shoot with.
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#5 Patrick McGowan

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 09:19 PM

Here's a question...

What if you took the lens off the adapter. Found a way to secure the lens at an angle in front of the adapter's ground glass. Used a black cloth as a makeshift bellows. Then, you might be able to get a similar look, assuming you could avoid really bad vignetting.

If this worked, you could be Scheimpfluging in no time!

I just re-read the original post and you said without the adapter?

If you had a different camera, it would be easier. If you had one with interchangeable lenses and a 2/3" or 1/3" sensor, that lens could be shifted or titled in front of the camera's chip, without vignetting, because a 35mm lens will cover more area than the sensor.

I've done that second thing with the JVC HD100. I want to post some stills of that actually.
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#6 Chris Keth

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 09:51 PM

The problem with that is one of precision. To really use the scheimpflug principle and a bellows system's ability to distort or fix distortion to it's fullest requires formidable precision. A tilt of a few degrees goes a long way in many setups and you really need to be able to adjust a little at a time for it to really be useful and not just a toy.
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#7 Patrick McGowan

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 10:28 PM

Well, it's certainly not on par with the shift/tilt system, but it could be interesting. It depends on how this affect is to be used.

I mean it seems like this affect would also benefit from being able to precisely move the film plane and not just the lens no? Like the Hylen system.
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#8 Chris Keth

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 01:38 AM

Well, it's certainly not on par with the shift/tilt system, but it could be interesting. It depends on how this affect is to be used.

I mean it seems like this affect would also benefit from being able to precisely move the film plane and not just the lens no? Like the Hylen system.


The hylen doesn't move the film plane.

Moving the film plane involves an entirely different set of effects. When you tilt or swing the lens, you change the orientation of the plane of focus. When you move the film plane, you change the perspective of the scene. For example, you can use it fix keystoning of a tall building, or enhance it to make it look even taller.

For more about how a bellows system can work, check out books or articles about using view cameras.
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#9 Patrick McGowan

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 09:28 AM

Okay, that's why that was a question. I'm not pretending to know anything. ;) I am trying to figure this technique out myself. I know it doesn't move the film plane itself. But, doesn't it have a large ground glass type device that can be precisely moved?

Edited by Patrick McGowan, 13 March 2008 - 09:30 AM.

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#10 Chris Keth

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:56 PM

Okay, that's why that was a question. I'm not pretending to know anything. ;) I am trying to figure this technique out myself. I know it doesn't move the film plane itself. But, doesn't it have a large ground glass type device that can be precisely moved?


Probably something like that. I haven't looked into exactly how it works.
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