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6 FPS transfered at 6 FPS


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#1 Tom Pollock

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 04:59 PM

Does anyone know where I might find a test or demo of 6 frames per second transfered at 6 frames per second? Thanks, Tom.
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#2 Matt Kelly

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:29 AM

Youtube? :P You're effectively talking about 6 fps, which would probably look a lot like something you could shoot with a cell phone.
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 10:33 AM

Does anyone know where I might find a test or demo of 6 frames per second transfered at 6 frames per second? Thanks, Tom.


Hi,

I have shot 8.33 & telecined at 8.33 for PAL TV. Motion was smooth with massive motion blur. Shoot film for a 1/3rd of the cost was my first thought!

Stephen
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#4 Jayson Crothers

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 12:12 PM

Tom, if I recall correctly the flashback scenes in "The Usual Suspects" were shot at 4fps and transferred at 4fps - you might look there for an example.

I did a feature a few years ago where we shot 12fps transferred at 12fps and 6fps at 6fps - I tested 4fps at 4fps and found it too extreme for my tastes at the time, but it depends on how much movement you'll have in the scene.
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#5 Stephen Price

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 01:54 PM

Does anyone know where I might find a test or demo of 6 frames per second transfered at 6 frames per second? Thanks, Tom.


Hello

Forgive me if i'm being pretty stupid, but i can visualise this. How does it differ if you shoot at say 12fps then telecine and transfer at 12fps when compared with when you shoot at 12fps and transfer at 24fps? what is the difference?

thanks
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#6 Mike Simpson

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 03:32 PM

Hello

Forgive me if i'm being pretty stupid, but i can visualise this. How does it differ if you shoot at say 12fps then telecine and transfer at 12fps when compared with when you shoot at 12fps and transfer at 24fps? what is the difference?

thanks


Shooting at 12fps then transfering to 24fps will result in sped-up motion. Any change in speed (fast or slow motion) is the result of shooting at faster or slower frame rates, then watching them back at 24fps (or 30 or whatever the final frame rate ends up being). Just imagine a timeline. If you shot 12 frames every second, then watched it back at 24fps, every second you shot would turn into 1/2 a second of final screen time, and thus everthing would move twice as fast.

Shooting at 12fps, then transfering at 12fps does not result in any change of speed. Essentially you are watching it back at the same speed you shot it. However, the big reason to do this is for the blurring effect. Since you are exposing each frame for twice as long, movement inside the frame tends to become very blurry. If you ever experimented with pans in photography this is a similar idea. If you are panning with a subject, the subject should be relatively sharp (because they are staying in the same place in the frame) but the background should experience blurring and streaking. There are some nice examples in the intro to Chungking Express. . Im pretty sure these are a much faster frame rate than 12fps. Maybe 6 or 4, but thats just a guess.

Goodluck!
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#7 Matt Kelly

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 06:18 PM

Yuck... I've never been a fan of the stuttery look. Just reminds me of web video. Has anyone ever staggered even/odd frames with two cameras shooting 12fps through some kind of beamsplitter? Then you could get the cool motion blur without having to watch it at 12fps. Then again it'd be easier to affect in post for that effort.
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#8 Mike Simpson

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:34 PM

Yuck... I've never been a fan of the stuttery look. Just reminds me of web video. Has anyone ever staggered even/odd frames with two cameras shooting 12fps through some kind of beamsplitter? Then you could get the cool motion blur without having to watch it at 12fps. Then again it'd be easier to affect in post for that effort.


The look isnt really stuttery, just movement tends to streak and blur.

You dont actually watch it back at 12 frames. You basically end up duplicating each frame to fit it into a 24 frame timeline, which if I understand your question, would achieve the same result.
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#9 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:45 AM

Yes, 6 FPS can create a blurrier image, but it can also create a sharper image if the action is not frenetic, the camera is on sticks, and the slower speed allows for a higher f-stop number. (deeper depth of field).

6 frames per second allows the audience to hold on each image for four times as long as at 24 frames per second, this creates a new dynamic to the footage.

Yes, 6FPS saves film.

Yes, your film suddenly becomes 2 f-stops more sensitive when shooting at 6 FPS versus 24 FPS. (Unless you can keep the shutter speed the same as when shooting at 24 frames per second).

I think the affect is somewhat different than what is found on cell phones and Youtube because each film frame still has a clarity to it whereas the cell phone and Youtube has a smearyness to it and can even have some kind of weird overlap to it, sort of like a trail affect.
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#10 Chris Keth

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:46 AM

The look isnt really stuttery, just movement tends to streak and blur.

You dont actually watch it back at 12 frames. You basically end up duplicating each frame to fit it into a 24 frame timeline, which if I understand your question, would achieve the same result.


Well, yeah it does look stuttery. If you shoot 6 fps and transfer it at 6 fps, that means that each frame will be displayed for 1/6 of a second. That is well under our eyes' persistence of vision and you will notice the transitions between frames quite plainly.

What can be done to help smooth things out is to step print the whole thing. It basically creates little cross dissolves between frames to ease the transitions. I believe Chungking Express did this.
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#11 Matt Kelly

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 02:17 AM

The look isnt really stuttery, just movement tends to streak and blur.

You dont actually watch it back at 12 frames. You basically end up duplicating each frame to fit it into a 24 frame timeline, which if I understand your question, would achieve the same result.


Oh no, what I mean is filming 24 actual frames per second (vs. just 12), but doing so using a longer than 1/48-ish shutter for more blurred motion. Step printing can help it lose some stutter effect but... it's like deciding to make a shot slow motion in editing....there's a BIG difference between halving the framerate in post (interpolation or not) vs. shooting it high speed on set. I like to see 24 "different" frames per second. And maybe it's just me... but that Chungking intro looks god awful cheesy. :P

Edited by Matt Kelly, 24 March 2008 - 02:18 AM.

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#12 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 08:48 AM

What can be done to help smooth things out is to step print the whole thing. It basically creates little cross dissolves between frames to ease the transitions. I believe Chungking Express did this.


Does anyone know how to achieve a 'step printing' effect in a non-linear editor?
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#13 Mike Simpson

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 08:57 AM

Does anyone know how to achieve a 'step printing' effect in a non-linear editor?


I would assume you shoot at 12fps or whatever framerate, then you try to duplicate the frames via a slow motion effect, although Ive never tried this so I cant speak of the quality.
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