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The New World = Deleted Scene


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#1 Tom Lowe

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 04:57 PM

I thought some of you might be interested. This is the Oscar Screener version of probably my favorite sequence in The New World:

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The theatrical version is much shorter:

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Both are incredibly beautiful, and music works a little better with the theatrical cut, but this opportunity to see an early Malick cut is definitely interesting to me. Malick reportedly obsesses over his editing. John Toll said that Malick would spend years in the editing room if the studios let him get away with it.

According to the producer Sarah Green and people Lubezki has spoken with, a very beautiful sequence of cinematography was shot for a love scene between Smith and Pocahontas, but SAG made them scrap the entire love scene because Kilcher was underaged. :( I guess SAG would have censored the Oscar-winning 1968 film version of Romeo and Juliet too. :(
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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:52 PM

According to the producer Sarah Green and people Lubezki has spoken with, a very beautiful sequence of cinematography was shot for a love scene between Smith and Pocahontas, but SAG made them scrap the entire love scene because Kilcher was underaged. :( I guess SAG would have censored the Oscar-winning 1968 film version of Romeo and Juliet too. :(

How bloody uptight...
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:06 PM

I saw the original cut (I think) the one released for Oscar consideration, and then noticed that the DVD version seemed different, though I don't remember the original well-enough to recall the differences. The original cut just seemed more dreamlike, and had more Wagner-ish music I think, less Horner -- or was there any Horner music in the original release? I have the soundtrack but it doesn't sound at all like what I remember in the original screening, which has that Wagner music from Das Reingold I think.
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#4 Tom Lowe

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 08:25 PM

I saw the original cut (I think) the one released for Oscar consideration, and then noticed that the DVD version seemed different, though I don't remember the original well-enough to recall the differences. The original cut just seemed more dreamlike, and had more Wagner-ish music I think, less Horner -- or was there any Horner music in the original release? I have the soundtrack but it doesn't sound at all like what I remember in the original screening, which has that Wagner music from Das Reingold I think.


David, I did a scene-by-scene comparison of the two versions back in early 2006, complete with dozens of screencaps, but I will have search around for it to see if I even have it. My old computer died and with it many files.

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My favorite shot from the movie, this one of of the trees in the water on the Chickahominy river, for example, lasts only 8 seconds in the theatrical version, but 16 seconds in the Oscar screener. Generally, the shots lasted longer, and yes, the first cut was a little "dreamier."

If you don't know the background of what happened between Malick and Horner, it's quite interesting. Basically Horner (whose music from Braveheart I worship) was a total dickhead and was not able to work with Malick, who asks for his music in advance. Like many of us, Malick actually edits TO the music, but Horner needed the finished film to compose. It was a match that did not work out well. Thus, Malick resorted to Wagner and Mozart for key sequences in the film. Hans Zimmer, on the other hand, rolled with the punches and composed his amazing score for The Thin Red Line before Malick edited, just based off of set visits and some clips Terry showed him. Zimmer said it was challenging for him, but that the final results - especially "Journey to the Line" - were his favorite compositions of his entire career so far. I can't remember how much Horner was used in the screener vs the theatrical cut, but certainly Malick and Horner were feuding during that time. I find it extremely hard to believe that Horner was not completely aware of Terry's editing style in advance. Anyway.. that's a whole 'nother post.

Edited by Tom Lowe, 14 March 2008 - 08:27 PM.

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#5 Chayse Irvin

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 01:56 AM

That scene was amazing. I wish it made it in the film in its entirety.
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#6 Ruairi Robinson

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 01:28 AM

Zimmer said it was challenging for him, but that the final results - especially "Journey to the Line" - were his favorite compositions of his entire career so far.


Not surprised to hear it - that track is amazing.

R.
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#7 Ignacio Aguilar

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 06:25 AM

Malick fans should be happy. His new film "Tree of Life" started shooting a few weeks ago with Emmanuel Lubezki as director of photography. It will be interesting to see if this time they'll shoot everything in 65mm or if they'll use 35mm anamorphic again (I don't think Malick will try HD anytime soon).
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#8 Matt Pacini

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 08:11 PM

Very nice.

And Max, "how bloody uptight..." indeed, although you can't blame SAG for this.

There was a federal law passed in the U.S. a little over a decade ago, which states that anyone who shows minors, or even overage actors portraying minors, in photos or motion picture footage in sexual situations, can be prosecuted for child pornography, and there are stiff sentences (excuse the pun!).

This is what tripped up the release here of Adrian Lyne's version of "Lolita" for several years here, and he had to do some creative cutting as well.

It's absurd, but filmmakers have to bend over backwards, or they could literally end up going to prison, under these "no tolerance" laws.
And by the way, it was Bill Clinton who pushed for, and was successful in passing this law, for those of you who think it's only conservatives who do this kind of thing.

On the music idea, I can see why Horner would have a problem with that. Music is not like film. I don't see how someone could successfully edit music to fit film. It's absurd, really. I mean, if the music is really supporting the emotions and action of what's going on at any given moment, there's simply no way a composer could guess when exactly these moments are going to happen.
You can't just arbitrarily"stretch" certain chunks of music to fit your scene either.
Weird...

Edited by Matt Pacini, 22 March 2008 - 08:15 PM.

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#9 Ruairi Robinson

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 12:32 AM

Very nice.

And Max, "how bloody uptight..." indeed, although you can't blame SAG for this.

There was a federal law passed in the U.S. a little over a decade ago, which states that anyone who shows minors, or even overage actors portraying minors, in photos or motion picture footage in sexual situations, can be prosecuted for child pornography, and there are stiff sentences (excuse the pun!).

This is what tripped up the release here of Adrian Lyne's version of "Lolita" for several years here, and he had to do some creative cutting as well.

It's absurd, but filmmakers have to bend over backwards, or they could literally end up going to prison, under these "no tolerance" laws.
And by the way, it was Bill Clinton who pushed for, and was successful in passing this law, for those of you who think it's only conservatives who do this kind of thing.

On the music idea, I can see why Horner would have a problem with that. Music is not like film. I don't see how someone could successfully edit music to fit film. It's absurd, really. I mean, if the music is really supporting the emotions and action of what's going on at any given moment, there's simply no way a composer could guess when exactly these moments are going to happen.
You can't just arbitrarily"stretch" certain chunks of music to fit your scene either.
Weird...



Worked for Sergio Leone when he made Once Upon a Time in America. They even had the children whistle the main theme in that iconic scene under the Manhattan Bridge.

Sequences can be designed around the music as well as vice-versa. Personally I greatly favour the idea of designing the central themes in advance of filming. You can play them on set to get the right tone for the scene. Of course it's a massive luxury these days in the *real world* of filmmaking, when music costs so much to compose/record...

R.
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#10 Tom Lowe

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 12:38 AM

Very nice.

And Max, "how bloody uptight..." indeed, although you can't blame SAG for this.

There was a federal law passed in the U.S. a little over a decade ago, which states that anyone who shows minors, or even overage actors portraying minors, in photos or motion picture footage in sexual situations, can be prosecuted for child pornography, and there are stiff sentences (excuse the pun!).

This is what tripped up the release here of Adrian Lyne's version of "Lolita" for several years here, and he had to do some creative cutting as well.


I think you might be wrong about this. It's SAG and not the government that prevented Malick from including this footage. If there were federal laws, why not prosecute the distributors of The Blue Lagoon or Pretty Baby? Those movies are still sold on DVD and run on cable tv all the time. Also, how would Larry Clarke (Kids) get away with making his movies??

It's absurd, but filmmakers have to bend over backwards, or they could literally end up going to prison, under these "no tolerance" laws.
And by the way, it was Bill Clinton who pushed for, and was successful in passing this law, for those of you who think it's only conservatives who do this kind of thing.


Actually, liberals are the worst when it comes to this sort of issue. SAG is packed full of some of the most "liberal" people in the country, and they are the ones who forced Malick to cut his picture.


On the music idea, I can see why Horner would have a problem with that. Music is not like film. I don't see how someone could successfully edit music to fit film. It's absurd, really. I mean, if the music is really supporting the emotions and action of what's going on at any given moment, there's simply no way a composer could guess when exactly these moments are going to happen.
You can't just arbitrarily"stretch" certain chunks of music to fit your scene either.
Weird...


Well, Hans Zimmer managed to turn in one of the best film scores of all time for The Thin Red Line working this way. You don't need a film in hand to create beautiful music. Obviously, Beethoven wrote his music with no visual film inspiration, and in fact he was actually deaf when he wrote some of his most amazing pieces. Malick brought Zimmer to the set of the The Thin Red Line, gave him the script, and spent untold hours talking to Zimmer about music. And Zimmer delievered, big time. The fact that Horner failed so miserably and acted like such an incredible jerk (the details are really mind-boggling... I will post about it later), reflects poorly on him, not on Malick.
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