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#1 michael rand

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:05 PM

any thoughts on how to rig an "extension to a dolly" so that an actor could sit a few feet away from the camera (which is on same dolly).

the point is that the camera needs to move and spin with the actor as if both are on a "lazy susan"

scroll down to the 2nd video (hollywood set)
http://www.slashfilm...on-commercials/

speed rail anyone?
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#2 Michael Nash

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 11:35 PM

scroll down to the 2nd video (hollywood set)
http://www.slashfilm...on-commercials/


Are you sure that was a dolly and *not* a lazy suzan of some kind? Or do you need more movement than that?
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#3 michael rand

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 06:51 AM

I need more movement....need to simulate the lazy susan but also dolly right or left

I was thinking somehing like one of those miniaturized childs merry-go'rounds (like you would find on a playground) mounted to a western dolly
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#4 robert duke

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:27 PM

Using speed rail attach a furniture dolly to the camera dolly at the appropriate length and give the actor a brace to either sit on or lean against.

you see the actor in the commercial respond to the movement, he is leaning against a handrail for support.

use a good furniture dolly with good swivel casters, the tri wheel casters are great for this, they respond to alternating movement better than regular swivel casters.

the commercial used a lazy susan, you could get a extra large lazy susan from Show Rig and actually dolly on it.

be sure to cross brace the dolly attachment.

Good luck
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#5 Darryl Richard Humber

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 02:02 PM

You might try getting a dolly with roundy-round steering and rig a platform off the front ( a Hustler 4 has seat recievers in the front board and you can rig a speedrail platform around it). You can ubangi the camera way from the actor and you should be able to get a good 4-5 feet away. Be sure you have enough counterbalance on the back of the dolly, although the Hustler weighs a good 425 lbs and the back end is where most of the weight is. Spin and go.
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#6 Stephen Price

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 05:05 PM

any thoughts on how to rig an "extension to a dolly" so that an actor could sit a few feet away from the camera (which is on same dolly).

the point is that the camera needs to move and spin with the actor as if both are on a "lazy susan"



Forgive me but, i am unfamiliar with the term "lazy susan", could you guys please elaborate?

Thanks
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#7 michael rand

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 06:03 PM

"lazy susan" is something that is typically small and found on a kitchen table. various food items can be placed on it and rotated instead of physically passed around.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lazy_Susan

so obviously it wouldn't work for this project but something much larger with similar properties is what I was originally referring to....maybe placed on a western dolly.
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#8 michael rand

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 06:13 PM

Darryl and Robert, thank you for the detailed responses. It definitely sounds like a job for a key grip (which I am not)

Robert - I'm trying to imagine what you are describing, and honestly I'm not tracking. Would you mind elaborating?
i can't picture how you are using the furniture dolly


love how helpful people are in this industry,
thx
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#9 Jon Rosenbloom

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 07:12 PM

To my eye, it looks like the actor in that commercial was sitting on the end of a small crane, and the camera was mounted a little way up the arm ... It's one thing to do this moving in unison effect using speedrail in a straight line, forward or back, but it gets really tough to do in a circle. The pipe will "whiplash" the lighter dolly. This might work with 1' box truss connecting the dollies.

Edited by Jon Rosenbloom, 22 March 2008 - 07:13 PM.

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#10 robert duke

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:08 AM

Jon, watch it again, the actor is about a foot off the ground which is caused by the lazy susan's size. they same effect was used in " confessions of a dangerous mind." using a crane would be a waste as it is easily achieved with a revolve, it also would bring a up down flex into the picture that is not apparent in the video. Lazy suzans are low tech. they are cheap to rent and quick to assemble. they come in all sizes from 1ft- 20ft and above. They have been used on stage for centuries. One was used at woodstock to set up bands backstage while another band played.

The actor stands on the furniture dolly with a handrail. the furniture dolly is connected to the camera dolly using speed rail. The speed rail is braced to counter act flexing caused by momentum. you could used 12" box truss but that requires two legs of truss and is awkward to connect back to the dolly. you can used speed rail truss fittings to help strengthen the speed rail pipe or use steel pipe instead of the aluminum pipe.

the Furniture dolly is an extension of the dolly to give space between actor and lens. Darryl's idea would work having the actor stand on the dolly's front board and the camera offset, but that limits your lens and shot.

Using the expensive tricaster wheels makes the furniture dolly create less resistance to immediate directional change,and the dolly grip happier.

There are several ways to do this many which will work. you could use a crane but you would have to get a large chapman in order for the actor, camera and operator to be able to ride. everything is possible its just how much are you willing to spend to get the shot.
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#11 Darryl Richard Humber

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:55 AM

Yes it is (limiting), but it'll give him the one in the video ;) . There are a thousand ways to do it. Mine was predicated on the fact that in the video the moves are very precise in their start's and stops, he wants to be able to track also, the actor looks to be around 4-6 feet from lens. Robert opted to give him more versatility. I've done both ways and they both work. It's not that complicated a shot, no matter how you do it, and I think it was done on a lazy susan (the simplest way is usually the best). Now the guy has several ways to choose from (although I'm going to try to think of ten more. :P )
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#12 michael rand

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:09 AM

thanks a ton for excellent detailed responses. I now have options!
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#13 Onno Perdijk

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 02:42 PM

Hello all,

A little late maybe...

In the last few years I have achieved this kind of shots using a
seat swivle support from egripment. You can easily bolt it on either a WesternDolly, Doorway or egripment-crane.

There are a lot of variations of this model available where you can set the actor on one seat on a little outrig, the camera in the center and the operator on the other seat. This way you can pan the camera by using your foot and since the whole rig is a full assembly the actor will be panned along with the camera and therefor keeps the same position on the frame.
If you mount this support on a crane-platform you can even do the jib-up ofcours. Your shot-foreground is set by the actor. The background is set by the height of the crane. Distances can be controlled by either using a ubanghy (or slider) for camera, or using seat-offset arms for the actor.

It is a very do-able shot, with easy-acces-gear. (at least here in europe)

Good Luck,

Onno Perdijk
KeyGrip, Amsterdam, Holland
Solid Grip Systems
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