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LTR vs XTRPlus viewfinder/eyepiece for Super 16


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#1 Tim Carroll

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:31 PM

I have used an LTR that was converted to Super 16 and found it difficult to see the whole Super 16 frame in the eyepiece without moving my eye back and forth. This is the same issue on the converted Arriflex 16SR and 16SRII cameras. One way it is solved on the ARRI is by purchasing the Super Wide Eyepiece, which allows you to see the whole Super 16 frame. I don't believe there is a Super Wide Eyepiece for the LTR though.

What I am wondering is if this issue is the same with the XTRPlus camera, which is Super 16 from the factory. Does it have a wider angle viewfinder/eyepiece? Can you see the whole Super 16 in the viewfinder/eyepiece of the XTRPlus without having to move your eye back and forth?

If anyone has experience with the XTRPlus camera and can let me know, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
-Tim
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#2 John Brawley

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:50 PM

What I am wondering is if this issue is the same with the XTRPlus camera, which is Super 16 from the factory. Does it have a wider angle viewfinder/eyepiece? Can you see the whole Super 16 in the viewfinder/eyepiece of the XTRPlus without having to move your eye back and forth?

If anyone has experience with the XTRPlus camera and can let me know, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
-Tim



Hi tim...

It's been a while since i looked through a plus, but my recollection is that they do require a little looking into the corners, especially the extension viewfinders. I think they were a little better than the SR's, but still not ideal.

The current Aaton 16mm VF's can be used on older cameras, and are much *wider*, even in the extension version. Remember they are different to the arri's because the VF is built into the extension on the Aaton.

Does that help ?

jb


edit:

Actually, something i just remembered. The viewfinder's can go out of alignment. You have to rotate them 180 degrees when swapping between the Extension and the normal eyepiece. If you keep rotating them in the same direction as you swap, you can shift the image to the left so that it starts to cut-off. Perhaps you can try rotating it back a few times to see if this improves things.

Edited by John Brawley, 26 March 2008 - 09:54 PM.

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#3 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:09 AM

Thanks John,

So if I understand correctly, the XTRPlus is going to be better than the LTR, but still not 100%. That's probably livable. It's not like you couldn't shoot with the LTR, it was just a bit annoying. If the XTRPlus is better than that it shouldn't be too bad.

Thanks,
-Tim
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#4 John Brawley

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 02:22 AM

Thanks John,

So if I understand correctly, the XTRPlus is going to be better than the LTR, but still not 100%. That's probably livable. It's not like you couldn't shoot with the LTR, it was just a bit annoying. If the XTRPlus is better than that it shouldn't be too bad.

Thanks,
-Tim



Well, as long as you're happy to trust my memory !

jb
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#5 Mitch Gross

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 09:08 AM

You can easily seeeverything on an Aaton viewfinder. There may have been some problems in the coversion you dealt with. In the late-eighties they started making the eyepiece with a different magnification so that it was easier to see the whole frame at once. I actually prefer the older design but to each their own.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 11:18 AM

You can easily seeeverything on an Aaton viewfinder. There may have been some problems in the coversion you dealt with. In the late-eighties they started making the eyepiece with a different magnification so that it was easier to see the whole frame at once. I actually prefer the older design but to each their own.


Mitch,

The camera I used was an LTR with serial number of C962, and AbelCineTech had done the conversion. You could see the whole Super 16 frame, but to do so you had to shift your eye back and forth a bit.

How does the XTRPlus viewfinder compare to that?

Thanks,
-Tim
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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 11:21 AM

You can do a mod to the LTRs V/F optics to increase your angle of view. I had the diameter of the eyepiece hole on my LTR V/F increased, which improved things.
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#8 Mitch Gross

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 12:38 PM

It's not the camera at issue, it is the viewfinder. You can put an old finder on a new camera or vise versa. There are different magnification ratios.
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#9 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 01:03 PM

I know, I discussed this at the time when Allan Giles modified my camera. From memory (it's about 15 years ago) he changed an element in my old V/F after I saw the original more magnified image. I also enlarged the eyepiece hole and fitted a new, larger light blocking shutter.

You can now see right across the Super 16 frame no bother, it just fills your vision in the V/F.
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#10 Tim Carroll

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:53 AM

This is a bit of an old thread, but I have revisited the issue and here is what I found. I have an Aaton XTR with a "D-type" viewfinder and it's even a bit worse than my old LTR was, as far as trying to view the Super 16 frame on the fibre optics screen. No matter how much I adjusted it, there were two corners of the screen I just could not see, no matter how much I moved my eye around.

So I took the eyepiece off of the XTR. I then took an ARRI SuperWide Angle eyepiece and put it up to the viewfinder tube(sans eyepiece), as seen below.

Posted Image

With the ARRI eyepiece I could see the entire ground glass (fibre optics screen) not just the Super 16 frame.

Then I did some experimenting with the Aaton eyepiece, setting it on the viewfinder tube, then pulling it away until I got it as far away from the viewfinder tube as I could and still was able to adjust the diopter to get a sharp image on the fibre optics screen. When I got it about a quarter of an inch away, I could see more of the fibre optics screen. So I took the metal mount piece off the eyepiece and remade one that increased the distance of the eyepiece from the viewfinder tube (as seen in the pictures below):

Posted Image

Posted Image

When I put the adapter on the eyepiece and the eyepiece on the viewfinder tube, it looked like this:

Posted Image

Posted Image

And it made a significant difference. As a simulated example, my view in the viewfinder went from this:

Posted Image

To this:

Posted Image

I still need to move my eye a bit to see all four corners of the Super 16 frame, but I can now see all four corners of the Super 16 frame. Before, no matter how much I moved my eye around in the viewfinder, I could not see two corners, one pretty substantially.

So, I'm pretty happy with that fix.

Best,
-Tim
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#11 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:07 PM

I don't remember having problems with XTRs, but the A-Minimas certainly allow viewing the entire S-16 area and markings through the viewfinder.
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