Jump to content


Photo

amateur wedding video?


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 KateHibbs

KateHibbs

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Other

Posted 04 April 2008 - 10:47 AM

Hi! I'm new on here so please be gentle :)

I have a question about Super 8 video, I'm hoping someone will be able to give me their opinion...

I'm getting married in July and I really really love the idea of a black and white Super 8 film, except I don't really love the price, £1000+, that companies seem to charge!! Over in camera heaven (ebay) there are cameras that look in good nick for <£50, film seems to be ~£10-£15 a roll, add ~£10/roll for development, so we'd be talking around £100 all together... I'd then get the film transferred to DVD and do the editing myself...

So I'm wondering, how hard can it possibly be? I don't want it to look super professional - that's kind of the idea, to have it looking like an old family movie, shakes and all.

Am I completely missing the point here?!

Also, I have a couple more questions:
1. How many minutes is one roll of super8 film typically? 2. Do all brands of film work in all cameras? Seems like Kodak film is the most abundant, is this generic, like 35mm camera film?

I'd be very grateful for any opinions!
Thanks in advance,
Kate
  • 0

#2 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 04 April 2008 - 12:22 PM

Hi Kate,

(please even though you might not want to stick around in this forum after your wedding, changing your display name 'hibbers' to your first and last name would be appreciated - it's forum policy and makes this such a gentle community)

your plan is absolutely fine, and my further explanations are grounded on the presumptious assumption that you don't have in-depth knowledge of Super 8 or indeed cine-film in general (please correct me)

If you want to shoot on Super 8 Black & White, then Kodak Plus-X (7265) and Kodak Tri-X (7266) would be the film stocks to buy. Plus-X would be ideal for exterior shots or well-light environments, whereas Tri-X is targeted for low-light or interior shots where the interior looks like the typical small-window usual-bulb UK home (and not a white-on-white open-plan Grand design manor).

You can buy, develop and even transfer-to-digital-video ("telecine") film stocks in the UK (at consumer market quality and pricing) at the Widescreen Centre off Baker Street in London. Their website is here and the Super 8 online shop is here for clicking.

I buy film stocks there myself since moving to the UK and they have excellent ware. They develop the films in Germany at a laboratory that is usually very good. You don't have to bother about development, they do all for you. They transfer the films to video in-house with a set-up that satisfies consumer market quality. If you want to put a bit more effort into this or want to learn about alternatives, I can expand on all this, otherwise, let's simply say: Widescreen Centre covers all things film: buying, developing and transfer to video.

Buying and developing costs 25 pounds per cartridge (a.k.a "roll"), and a cartridge usually runs for either 3 mins 20 sec. when shooting at 18 fps (the "consumer speed") or 2 mins 30 sec at 24 fps (the "cinema speed"). A transfer-to-video (telecine) costs (if you have multiple rolls to transfer) £15.00 per roll plus £4.00 for the DVD onto which this gets transfered.

You can also shoot on Super 8 colour film, by the way, like the Kodak Vision2 200 T (7217) which is the stuff used for Hollywood films. It costs the same like the Black & White stocks for buying, development and transfer: around 25 sterling plus 15 per transfered roll and 4 quid the DVD. You can either keep the color or you can make them transfer it without colors into Black & White. The advantage would be that this film has greater latitude and less contrast, so in complicated lighting (darkish rooms, or stark shadows of trees mixed with bright sunlight for outside garden shots), that film is a bit more forgiving and gets more image information on it... to put it simply. You see more details in shadows, for example.



What you then need is a camera. Now you can get a cam for 5 or 10 sterling off eBay.co.uk, however, the trouble is that those cams are usually of lesser marques, and hence might not have been that much loved in their 20-30 years of previous-owner lives before they end up on eBay. Think of it like a 2nd hand car. A 25 year old Ford will have received less love than a 25 year old Bentley when they end up in the classifieds.

That means some might not have received care and maintenance as such mechanical devices need to run to their best (and they are much better in quality than any consumer digital video gear you get thrown at in Dixons or Curry; just to mention that). These cameras are like clockworks, and old watches and clocks need maintenance as well.
So you can get a cheap cam, but it might be broken or not properly working. There are also aspects on how to operate them, and sometimes, a little bit more is less annoyance on the shoot.

Now there is currently a cam that I would recommend on eBay for not alot (at least so far). It's due in a week or so, and might be a bit pricier, around 60-70 GBP going price, but this might be the sort of cam you might want to keep and take with you on the honeymoon or even later, shooting kids or families, if you fancy that. I am not disclosing details here as this might generate competition here, so if you want details on that cam recommendation, just PM me through the forum.


Hope that helped a bit; others will chime in. Obviously I am not affiliated whatsoever with Widescreen Centre, nor that eBay auction - i just searched what's on there and find that device.

Best wishes,

-Michael
  • 0

#3 andy oliver

andy oliver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 258 posts
  • Other
  • uk

Posted 04 April 2008 - 12:30 PM

Hi Kate, congrats on your up and coming wedding. Now i have filmed a couple of super 8 wedding, the last one i did for a company, made me no money, to give you an idea, film stock and processing came in at £190.00 ish,plus registerred mail to Germany, both ways. I recall exposing 7 rolls of super 8, one roll of 2minute 16mm for the service, the finished film ran for 8mins, cut to music. A cutting ratio of 3-1. The time i added travel costs, the transfer and editing was done by me, my charge was £250.00. The company charged the client around 400-500 quid. For me it was a project, but for any given company who earns a living from 8mm filming, they have to cover, insurances, stock costs, processing, edit time, transfer cost , attend the rehearsal, have back up equipment, travel cost etc, you can see why the costs are high. Also, i would expect that the company would also batch test the stock to confirm theres no transport issues with the cartridge.

Anyhows, basically you can say, £22.00 per cartridge of b/w film inc processing, plus shipping to Germany for processing.
You really need a camera like a canon 514xl though i'm not sure if the canon 514xl can read kodak b/w PLUS-X filmstock ( perhaps ask on a seperate thread )
You dont want to have the film burnt to dvd, but to tape, i think, by burning to dvd, your images will be compressed, ripping them to edit, then editing them and putting them back onto dvd may look awful. Best option, and i may stand corrected, is to have your films tranferred straight to mini-dv.

A super 8 cartridge will last, at 18fps ( thats the running speed of the camera ) around 3 mins 20 secs. Shoot at 18fps, dont try and save money and film at 9fps

in your price range, imo, best cameras are canons or bauers

nope, not all cameras can read all filmstocks.
  • 0

#4 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 04 April 2008 - 08:22 PM

If you're local and I'm not busy that weekend I'd shoot it for you if you'd buy the filmstock.
  • 0

#5 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 04 April 2008 - 09:26 PM

Hey kate,

Congrats. But I would say don't just have anybody take your super 8 images. Even though you are looking for a rough home movie look, some people just don't know how to use a camera either moving or still.

You only get married once. If you really want good and useful images get someone who is good at taking images.

Best

Tim

My own wedding films that I do for friends and family if you are interested:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0893499/
  • 0

#6 david savetsky

david savetsky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Teaneck N.J. USA

Posted 05 April 2008 - 08:20 PM

Hi Kate CONGRATULATIONS Have you considered live sync sound ?
I have 63 rolls of ELA594 ECKTACHROME ASA 160 SOUND FILM IF YOU CAN GET A HOLD OF A SOUND SUPER 8 CAMERA. Processing is available for about $30 per roll and the film will run $25 per roll if you buy a minimum of 5 rolls
If interested let me know
dave
TEANECK NEW JERSEY
USA
  • 0

#7 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:55 AM

Wow, David E-160 in commag? That's almost of historic value now, those stocks surely being older than 15 years! Am sure they are cold-stored by you, but just out of personal interest, what's the expiry date of those?
  • 0

#8 david savetsky

david savetsky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Teaneck N.J. USA

Posted 06 April 2008 - 11:20 AM

Wow, David E-160 in commag? That's almost of historic value now, those stocks surely being older than 15 years! Am sure they are cold-stored by you, but just out of personal interest, what's the expiry date of those?


The 50 ft carts were the last manufactured by kodak in the mid 90's .EXPERATION DATE PROBABLY LATE 90's. They have been kept frozen ever since and have been tested (results available) by PPS (marty baumgarten)in NEW YORK and provide near perfect exposure. The carts were packed in the yellow foil without the cardboard box.The carts are probably the last ones that are in excellent condition and can provide sync sound where needed.I recently sold 100 rolls to someone for a project
The 63 are the last ones i have and are available since i use only kodachrome sound.When thats finished its all over for me and i hope i'll still be able to sell my equipment
cheers
david
  • 0

#9 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:26 PM

For curiosity, how much are you seeking for those carts?
  • 0

#10 david savetsky

david savetsky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Teaneck N.J. USA

Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:53 PM

Less than 5 $30 each
5 or more $25 each
all 63 $20 each
  • 0

#11 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:45 PM

Less than 5 $30 each
5 or more $25 each
all 63 $20 each

Hmm... might have to see what the wallet can afford.
  • 0

#12 KateHibbs

KateHibbs

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Other

Posted 07 April 2008 - 04:59 AM

Hi Kate,

(please even though you might not want to stick around in this forum after your wedding, changing your display name 'hibbers' to your first and last name would be appreciated - it's forum policy and makes this such a gentle community)


done, sorry about that

Wow, thanks for everyone's very helpful comments. I think I've struck gold with someone offering to do my video for the cost of the film + expenses... Much better than having my brother attempt it with an ebay camera i think :lol: I'm very excited about this project and might just have to get myself a camera off ebay anyway to play around with after the wedding!

cheers,
Kate
  • 0

#13 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 07 April 2008 - 05:54 PM

done, sorry about that

Wow, thanks for everyone's very helpful comments. I think I've struck gold with someone offering to do my video for the cost of the film + expenses... Much better than having my brother attempt it with an ebay camera i think :lol: I'm very excited about this project and might just have to get myself a camera off ebay anyway to play around with after the wedding!

cheers,
Kate

Whereabouts will the wedding be anyways?
  • 0

#14 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 07 April 2008 - 08:39 PM

done, sorry about that

Wow, thanks for everyone's very helpful comments. I think I've struck gold with someone offering to do my video for the cost of the film + expenses... Much better than having my brother attempt it with an ebay camera i think :lol: I'm very excited about this project and might just have to get myself a camera off ebay anyway to play around with after the wedding!

cheers,
Kate


You still might want real sound of your event, which might require a video camera as well along with a second shooter. Plus, you should always pay the camera person something as it will obligate them moreso than not paying them. This becomes even more true if you ask them to come to the rehearsal.

The tricky part is figuring out how much film you really will need and how much indoor versus outdoor film stock. Also, the camera noise can become a distraction during quiet times. Transfer to mini-dv and edit from that versus going directly to dvd, that will probably raise your transfer price a bit.
  • 0

#15 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:15 AM

As I was just there today, I asked at the Widescreen Centre: going to miniDV will cost 5 GBP, while going to DVD (either as DVD-Video or a DVD with QuickTime files for NLE) will cost aforementioned 4 GBP.

miniDV is the better solution re. picture quality and post-chain, that is clear, but going to DVD is quite popular for consumers who do not have either a miniDV camcorder they can use as a source player, let alone a standalone miniDV deck. Instead, they just pop the DVD-(video or data) into their Wintel PC or Apple Mac and can edit it with whatever application they can download as Free or Shareware from the Web - or iMovie 08, of course.
  • 0

#16 Richardson Leao

Richardson Leao
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Other
  • Stockholm, Sweden

Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:29 AM

As I was just there today, I asked at the Widescreen Centre: going to miniDV will cost 5 GBP, while going to DVD (either as DVD-Video or a DVD with QuickTime files for NLE) will cost aforementioned 4 GBP.

miniDV is the better solution re. picture quality and post-chain, that is clear, but going to DVD is quite popular for consumers who do not have either a miniDV camcorder they can use as a source player, let alone a standalone miniDV deck. Instead, they just pop the DVD-(video or data) into their Wintel PC or Apple Mac and can edit it with whatever application they can download as Free or Shareware from the Web - or iMovie 08, of course.


when i got married, i gave a couple of loaded s8 cams to some friends that did not have a clue about filming. It turned out very nice (I also did a small animation for my james bond-like father in law also in s8 and in the begining of the film. This was just filmed from the wall, but if you wanna see:

http://jcsmr.anu.edu.../my_wedding.mpg

50 something megs though...
  • 0

#17 Gerard Furber

Gerard Furber
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 April 2008 - 02:56 PM

For something really personal in addition to the shoot which has been promised:

Get some Sankyo EM-20XL cameras (cheap, lightweight, focus-free, low-light, fully automatic and idiot-proof) from the early 1980s, load them with either Tri X (black and white) or Kodak Vision 200T (colour neg) and give them to as many people as you can, with instructions to shoot shots of no more than 5 to 10 seconds apiece throughout the event.

You'll be glad you did.
  • 0

#18 andy oliver

andy oliver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 258 posts
  • Other
  • uk

Posted 08 April 2008 - 08:18 PM

For something really personal in addition to the shoot which has been promised:

Get some Sankyo EM-20XL cameras (cheap, lightweight, focus-free, low-light, fully automatic and idiot-proof) from the early 1980s, load them with either Tri X (black and white) or Kodak Vision 200T (colour neg) and give them to as many people as you can, with instructions to shoot shots of no more than 5 to 10 seconds apiece throughout the event.

You'll be glad you did.



I totally agree, this will add more to the home movie look you require, and get you more material of your big day...
  • 0

#19 Justin Lovell

Justin Lovell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 262 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Toronto

Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:20 PM

posted a wedding I shot on a mix of super 8 and super 16 in my blog.
Has 250D, 200T, 500T, 64T (cross processed) and tri-x (cross-processed) all in it.

Enjoy the reference :)

www.framediscreet.blogspot.com (scroll down a few days) back.

Edited by Justin Lovell, 09 April 2008 - 11:20 PM.

  • 0


Tai Audio

CineTape

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Glidecam

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Opal

CineLab

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

CineTape