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ARRI 416 and SR3


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#1 Lars Zemskih

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:26 PM

So I've been at panavision rental today looking for 16mm cameras, I've asked about 416 and they did not have it.

They told me that we don't want to rent the camera as many productions had many problems with it. Reporting gate that scratched and stretched the film, as well as complicated lacing that many assistants hated it. So I should wait for an update and would be better off with SR3.

Why would it still be better than SR3 then? For one, it only goes to 75fps as oppose to 150 on SR3.

Hm
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#2 John Brawley

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:34 PM

Why would it still be better than SR3 then? For one, it only goes to 75fps as oppose to 150 on SR3.

Hm


I can't say I've heard anything like this about the 416, but I haven't had the chance to use it yet. Also, the SR3HS goes to 150 FPS, but a regular SR3 will only do 75 FPS. There are two SR3 models to choose from if you like. The high speed version has a different flange rail depth setting.

jb
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:40 PM

The 416 is basically just more streamlined, ergonomic, lighter in weight and with much better viewfinder optics. It doesn't really do anything that the SR3 doesn't do, but the operator's experience should be improved.

If I'm not mistaken only the SR3 HighSpeed model goes up to 150fps; the regular is 75fps. I don't know that there's an "HS" model of the 416.
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#4 Michael Nash

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:41 PM

The high speed version has a different flange rail depth setting.


And a nylon pressure plate in the mags instead of metal, IIRC.
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#5 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:04 PM

In my experience, the 416 is very easy to load and great for handheld. The magazine threading pattern is very similar to the Aaton XTR Prod mags, relatively simple coaxial design. There's no threading necessary in the camera body just like the Aaton and Arri SR cameras - they just slap into the body and you're ready to go. The 416's viewfinder is the best part of the camera - it's very clear and bright. You can also remove the top handle with three screws which makes the camera extremely low-profile. There's no high speed model of the 416, it only goes to 75fps. It does have a manually adjustable shutter. Never had any problems with scratched film - of course we scratch tested the mags at prep.

The one problem I had with the camera I got was that it was consistently noisy - we tried the pitch adjust, changing the loop size, cleaning the mags and body, nothing worked. This did not happen at the camera prep but only started when we got on location. Unfortunately, we were 300 miles from the rental house and couldn't get a replacement body. However, the footage turned out fine so I guess the camera could have just needed some time to "break in", dunno. We rented from Otto Nemenz.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:22 PM

If I remember correctly, another thing about the 416 is that it can use a number of lenses that will not fit on the SR3, like the new Master Prime lenses.

It's funny you mention noise. I have not had a chance to use a production model of the 416, but I did get some time to play with one of the pre-production models, and it was the absolute quietest camera I ever used. I had to literally press my ear to the camera to hear it running with a full 400 ft mag. Maybe they made some changes as they went into production. Hope not.

It's also a very nice ergonomic camera, like the Aatons, and it sits on your shoulder really nice.

I too had no problems whatsoever loading the mags. Found it as easy as loading SR mags and almost as easy as loading Aaton mags.

Best,
-Tim
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#7 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:36 PM

Well, all I can say is I was extremely surprised too especially since we didn't have a problem with the camera in prep. I would think it was a maintenance issue, but it could be an indication that the 416 is not the most robust camera out there. Still, I really enjoyed working with it. And you're right, the higher position of the 416 viewfinder allows the camera to accept most if not all PL mount lenses. It will certainly fit the Master Primes, which could not fit on the SR cameras.
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#8 timHealy

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:52 PM

So I've been at panavision rental today looking for 16mm cameras, I've asked about 416 and they did not have it.

They told me that we don't want to rent the camera as many productions had many problems with it. Reporting gate that scratched and stretched the film, as well as complicated lacing that many assistants hated it. So I should wait for an update and would be better off with SR3.

Why would it still be better than SR3 then? For one, it only goes to 75fps as oppose to 150 on SR3.

Hm


A Panavision rental house says you don't want to rent Arri's because of problems. Imagine that.
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#9 Lars Zemskih

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:16 AM

A Panavision rental house says you don't want to rent Arri's because of problems. Imagine that.


well, it wouldn't matter for Panavision, because they rent ARRI as well. They usually don't even try to push you either way, they say: "whatever you need, man" :)
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 03:14 PM

A Panavision rental house says you don't want to rent Arri's because of problems. Imagine that.


Hi,

BTW Panavision is Arri's biggest customer. As the Elaine does not really cut it, and the Panastar is no match for a 435 it's hardly surprising.

Stephen
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#11 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 07:41 PM

Just a note...I think I remember hearing that there is a 416HS version coming out soon.
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#12 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:03 AM

Sorry for the tardiness in joining this thread... non-ciny.com business kept me busy.

I recently had the joy to get my hands on an Arriflex 416 and would personally describe it as the best 16m form factor and ergonomic design Arri came up with for many decades, possibly ever. It is a huge improvement over the rather overrated SR-series and the first serious proposition that I would potentially choose over an Aaton X-series. With the 416, Arri finally arrived in the 16mm sector in the way Eclair and Aaton pioneered it... well... 40 years ago... after all, the SR was already outdated when it was launched... B) .

The comments you have heard at Panavision here concerning 416 troubles hugely suprise me, Rafael. I have not heard nor encountered such troubles. But the specificality of those make them sound terribly legitimate from PV's side... If that would be the case, then the 416 could develop into another surprise, namely not a good one but a terrible bomb on the market similar to the Arriflex 535 (effectively forcing Arri into buying up Moviecam).

Has anyone else heard about these 416 troubles?! Or did a wise-guy sales rep just bluff you, my friend, into hiring a SR3 because they didn't like the idea of a "Student Production" getting their hands on a new 416 kit (i know, presumptious from my side re PV, but we all know how humans can sometimes be...)?

Cheers,

-Michael


P.S.: An HS version is to be launched next year latest, replacing the greyling SR-HSs.
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#13 Sander Ferdinand

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:24 PM

I'm working at a rental house and today my 'boss' told me that he founded the new Arri 416 'revolutionary' in it's super 16 area. I haven't heard any complains about it at all.

I will probaly get to use it tomorow or in the following days. Can't wait.

Edited by Sander Ferdinand, 20 May 2008 - 02:25 PM.

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