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Beaulieu 6008S


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#1 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 08:31 AM

Hey guys,
I've got some questions about Beaulieu 6008S and Super8 in general.
The thing is I've heard a lot about that what you need to get right when shooting Super8 is the ASA of the film. So say if I'm shooting with Vision2 200T this film has 200 ASA, but I've read alot of stuff about that you shouldn't set the camera precisly to 200 ASA. Why is this? I've read somewhere that for example Ektachrome 64T should be set to 40 ASA. Why is this? I just can't understand what people are raving about. So what's the deal with this? Cheers guys
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#2 Erik Vilhelm

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 11:16 AM

Hey guys,
I've got some questions about Beaulieu 6008S and Super8 in general.
The thing is I've heard a lot about that what you need to get right when shooting Super8 is the ASA of the film. So say if I'm shooting with Vision2 200T this film has 200 ASA, but I've read alot of stuff about that you shouldn't set the camera precisly to 200 ASA. Why is this? I've read somewhere that for example Ektachrome 64T should be set to 40 ASA. Why is this? I just can't understand what people are raving about. So what's the deal with this? Cheers guys


With negative film (vision2) you could set it to less than 200 ASA and overexpose to a certain degree without any problem.
With reversal film (Ektachrome) it's better to aim for exactly 64 ASA, since it's less tolerant for overexposing (underexposing is "more" OK though).
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#3 Tony Terziev

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 01:26 PM

I wouldn't underexpose reversal film since it only has a 4 stop range. I'd rather overexpose it a tiny bit. In my opinion, the reasons to
over/underexpose would be if you decide to push/pull your footage while processing. This give you a special look of your footage.
Niagara Custom Lab are capable of pulling/pushing your footage.
By the way, welcome to the forum, Hampus!

/Tony
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#4 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 02:30 PM

Cheers guys! So if you set the Vision2 to exactly 200, that wouldn't be completely wrong tough? By the way, I'm going to shoot my first really serious Super8 short and I haven't really decided what type of film to use. I'll be shooting inside and outside, and in some scenes there will be kinda low light conditions where I won't be able to do anything about it (in the subway). But then there will be some outdoor scenes which will be very bright. I'm not sure if the Ektachrome 64T will be able to expose right in the subway's shady lightning. So is it recommended not to mix film types in the same movie? Will this be ugly, and noticable? Say shooting with a faster film like the Vision2 in the subway and the 64T outside in daylight? I really like the look of the Ektachrome but there's no way it'll work in the subway, I checked with a digital lightmeter and it won't work until you get at least 100 ASA with 1.4 f-stop.

Edited by Hampus Bystrom, 12 April 2008 - 02:33 PM.

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#5 Tony Terziev

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 03:32 PM

Negative stocks usually have a 10 stop range, so rating your Vision2 at 200 ASA sounds fine to me.
There are no written rules about using different types of film in super-8, experiment as much as you like with different film stocks!
I don't see any problem with using negative film in the subway and reversal film in daylight.
You could always make them look quite similar in post.
Cheers!

/Tony

Edited by Tony Terziev, 12 April 2008 - 03:35 PM.

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#6 Jim Carlile

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:43 AM

I don't know-- I wouldn't mix them because you'll notice the difference. Why not use the VISION for everything?

Kodak's official position is that they prefer overexposure for the negative stocks-- they deliberately set up the cartridges to index all exposure meters at ASA 100 which is one full stop over. I'm not a big negative expert but the reason is something about more dynamic range in the transfer-- there's more to work with.

One stop seems excessive to me but you'd still be better off I think with setting the meter at ASA 160, which would give you about 1/3 stop over.
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#7 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:08 PM

I don't know-- I wouldn't mix them because you'll notice the difference. Why not use the VISION for everything?


Yeah that's what I tought, altough the Vision2 is slightly more expensive. But what the hell it's worth it. Think I'll go with the Vision2 for the whole movie.
And if you add the cameras inbuilt orange 85 filter that would make the ASA drop to about 135 right?
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#8 Erik Vilhelm

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:53 PM

It will drop to 125 ASA.
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#9 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 02:53 PM

It will drop to 125 ASA.


Okay, sounds fair. I've heard some stuff that you have to fiddle with the cartridge or the film refuses the built-in orange filter?
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#10 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 03:24 PM

Depends on the camera and the filter system sensing the notching. If you own a Beaulieu 6008S with the Schneider 6-70mm, then you will find the Wratten filter switch to be integrated into the lens, with a rollo switch. The Beaulieu 6/7/9008-series does not have an integrated Wratten filter at all.

Oh, and I would not recommend switching between Vision2 and Ektachrome unless this is a purposefully aesthetical decision, i.e. to use specific materal aestehtics for specific cinematic means! YOu will notice a difference, quite alot, actually; and I second Jim's point to just go with 7217 entirely for the shoot. Your telecine or DI person will appreciate it as reversal are more demanding to transfer, and (IMHO) very few people can transfer reversal such as Ekta- or KOdachrome well.
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#11 Jean Beaudoin

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 07:18 PM

I entierly agree Michael. I am now in the process of finishing a short film and I choose to film it only
on Vision II 200T and 500T. I had great footage done on 64T but rejeced it because I did not want
to mix the stocks. Frame Discreet is handling the transfert right now and Niagara Custom Lab did
the process. Shot with Nizo Pro and Beaulieu 4008 ZM II. Images to come for the benefit of everyone...

Edited by Jean Beaudoin, 13 April 2008 - 07:22 PM.

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#12 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 02:08 PM

Yeah, okay I'll go with the Vision2 I guess. Because I'm almost purely an aesthetic person when it comes to cinema. No that's not true, I'm not all that superficial. But I rate the artwork of cinema just as high as storyline.
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#13 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:33 PM

Yeah, okay I'll go with the Vision2 I guess. Because I'm almost purely an aesthetic person when it comes to cinema. No that's not true, I'm not all that superficial. But I rate the artwork of cinema just as high as storyline.



Have you shot the vision 2 before? If you are all about aesthetics then I assume that the relative color representation of the film, its grain, and its contrast are important to you. 7217 is similar to 7246 which I really like in 16mm in that it is low contrast and has somewhat punchy colors for a neg. stock. For what its worth the 7217 is fairly grainy and I have never liked the results when shooting in low light on 7217 as a super 8 stock.

For aesthetics I think the Spectra 100D and the the Velvia 50D are the best super 8 stocks out there. They are more contrasty, have wonderful color and tight grain. Naturally to use them well you need to be really good a controlling your exposures.

I also would not worry at all about intercutting different film stocks. Few if any of your viewers will ever be aware of the difference. With changes from scene to scene you naturally have dramatic changes in lighting and contrast etc. Such changes are far more dramatic than the differences between film stocks. Its quite reasonable to expect that a subway INT. scene will look radically different than a morning EXT. scene. So its makes perfect sense to shoot your subway scene on 7217 and a morning EXT. on Spectra 100D. The only time when intercutting stocks might be a problem is if you use two or more stocks for a single scene that is set in one location with consistent lighting etc. Then the different stocks will show. Of course contrasting stocks so that the difference is noticeable with in a scene is an aesthetic choice that may suit some scenes.

In the end there are no general rules. The decision of what stocks to use depends upon how you want to manipulate the the visual elements of the film and your personal aesthetic goals for the different scenes and how they fit into the whole.
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#14 Chris Burke

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:03 PM

Yeah, okay I'll go with the Vision2 I guess. Because I'm almost purely an aesthetic person when it comes to cinema. No that's not true, I'm not all that superficial. But I rate the artwork of cinema just as high as storyline.




May I suggest the following so you get the most out of your first serious Super 8 experience.


1) Use two different stocks; 7218 in the subway, 7217 outdoors. You will need all the help you can get in the subway, since most of the time it is quite dark.


2) shoot at least a gray scale card for each lighting change, ie... one for the subway, another for outdoors. This will give the colorist a standard by which to go by. They can be purchased at any descent photo shop. It is a card that is black, white and gray. They come in a variety of sizes and patterns, but simple is best.


The 7218 above I rated at 320, the 7217 I rated at 100 with the 85 in place. Granted each image is a highly compressed jpeg, I think they show the general look of the Vision 2 stocks.

If you can get some of the 7219, then shoot that instead of the 18. Good luck




Here are examples of both:

7218
[attachment=3872:Lynn_HS_Online.jpg]



7217

[attachment=3873:Steve_close_up.jpg]





chris
:rolleyes:
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#15 Hampus Bystrom

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 01:19 AM

Cheers for the elaborate answers guys! I really appreciate it. Right now it seems sort of like a plethora of information but I think I've got it all. And as you say there's really no "standardized" rules. I've just sent two test films for scanning, the Ektachrome 64T and Vision2 200T, so I will see then how they come out. The Velvia or the Spectra are really hard to come across here in Sweden, or that is, I haven't come across them. Yeah it's a rather serious project so I'll be shooting with a grey card and a color checker.
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#16 Tony Terziev

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:22 AM

For Velvia, you'll have to order it from Spectra Film & Video. It's not that hard! :)
I recommend doing it now since the dollar is very cheap and
a cartride will cost you about 235 SEK (processing included.) right now!
The colors are truly beautiful with their saturated look. Kinda surrealistic.
All the best!

/Tony
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