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Bright morning light through large window


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#1 Zac Halberd

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 06:26 AM

Hey guys,

Lighting a short in Bristol Next weekend, and wanted to ask for some advice. I've read through the forums and although I found similar posts, none of them answered my questions.

Basically the location is a hair salon with a massive window at the front of the shop with those long vertically rotating blinds (handy!)

The salon has no practicals, except a number of manky flourescent lights in the ceiling. They have a nasty tungsten colour.

I really want to just forget about the house lights, and make use of the fact that the script calls for a morning scene. I thought about blasting a HMI through the window and rotating blinds to hide it. I want the light to look a bit yellow, just like early morning light. (not twilight early, but sunny early)

Do I need to gel the light to get that 'yellow' look, or can I just roll the White balance on the DSR-570 up enough to make the light warmer???

If it's a gel issue, what would you recommend?

Thanks again.

Z

Edited by Zac Halberd, 13 April 2008 - 06:27 AM.

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#2 Zac Halberd

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 06:33 AM

Just wanted to post an example for you guys, as to what inspired the imagery I'm going for.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I love this advert. It makes me really want to drink some OJ. Which I guess is the point.

Anyway, if you look at around the 11 second mark, as well as the 14 second mark, this is the light I'm talking about, although it's not as prominant in the 14 second shot.
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 02:37 PM

It only matters that all your lights match each other, that is, if you want them to match each other. You can warm up the overall color of the image through white balancing, just keep in mind that it colors the entire scene, not just the one light.

If you want to warm up your HMI "sun" a little, most people use either CTS or CTO, usually about 1/4 density for something like this.

To get those strong shafts of light like that you need a big unit far away, so take a look how far back you can place a light outside the window.
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#4 Chris Keth

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 02:42 PM

I've done this a bunch lately for video with a 1200 HMI (or two) with 1/4 CTS and a little diff on the doors, usually 250. We weren't going for hard shafts really, but rather slightly soft warm light.

Edited by Chris Keth, 13 April 2008 - 02:43 PM.

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#5 Walter Graff

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 03:42 PM

You could do it eaither way with success. White balance way? Keep a few small swatches of 1/8 CTB. White balnce for the color the light is. oOes it look right? No? Now white blance with 1/8th in front of the lens. Each addition of 1/8th to the white balance will make the picture warmer. White balance to taste. Or use the light method. CTOs of varying degree in front of your HMI until you get the light color you want.
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#6 Zac Halberd

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 07:34 PM

Brilliant help guys thanks! I've never heard of the CTB swatches in front of the lense for warmer white balance before. That's a crafty idea.

I think I'll try using the 1/4 CTO on the HMI first. It kinda makes sense now that I think about it. lol

Thanks again.

Z
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#7 Chris Keth

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:48 PM

Brilliant help guys thanks! I've never heard of the CTB swatches in front of the lense for warmer white balance before. That's a crafty idea.

I think I'll try using the 1/4 CTO on the HMI first. It kinda makes sense now that I think about it. lol

Thanks again.

Z


Go to an expendables shop and ask for a gel swatchbook. Tons of possible white balances waiting to happen, and it's free.
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#8 Jon Furtado

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:23 AM

I would even try putting a 2K Tungsten Fesnel outside the window and blast the light thru it. It won't matter much that its orange because light that early in the morning is orange. And if you need to cool it down just slip some CTO in there.

The color balancing with the CTO swatches is a neat trick for run and gun shooting when you dont have the time to properly light your set. If you have the time its better to color correct the individual light so you have more control.
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#9 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:53 AM

Yeah, working with the 1/8 to 1/4 densities I think is best. You don't want to go too warm. To me, the dense warm color says sunset whereas a sunrise/morning light is definitely bluer/whiter to my eye.

A good film to look at is "Caramel", it takes place in a salon and really uses those large windows. It's not on DVD yet, but here's a trailer:
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#10 Zac Halberd

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:08 AM

I'm just a bit worried because we only have the budget for something like a 1.2k HMI, and I'm only worried that it won't be strong enough to do what I see in my head. I'll make it work though.

If you don't mind, I'll post some stills of the film once it's finished.

Thanks for all the advice.
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#11 Walter Graff

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:12 AM

"The color balancing with the CTO swatches is a neat trick for run and gun shooting when you dont have the time to properly light your set. If you have the time its better to color correct the individual light so you have more control."

Actually it is a great trick for when you have all the time in the world, not just run and gun. It offers very exacting correction of lighitng fixtures in the field with a good monitor and scope. Partially because of how a TV camera sees light and how much better your pictures end up when you stay in the cooler area of white blance which offers more film aestetic like pictures from any video camera than using het warmer spectrum.
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#12 Andrew Koch

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 04:19 AM

I would even try putting a 2K Tungsten Fesnel outside the window and blast the light thru it. It won't matter much that its orange because light that early in the morning is orange. And if you need to cool it down just slip some CTO in there.

The color balancing with the CTO swatches is a neat trick for run and gun shooting when you dont have the time to properly light your set. If you have the time its better to color correct the individual light so you have more control.



I think you meant to say CTB to cool it down. But if you were to go this route you would need a much bigger unit than a 2k fresnel, otherwise the unit would be too close to the window and not look real.
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#13 Ed Moore

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:22 PM

I'm just a bit worried because we only have the budget for something like a 1.2k HMI, and I'm only worried that it won't be strong enough to do what I see in my head. I'll make it work though.

If you don't mind, I'll post some stills of the film once it's finished.

Thanks for all the advice.


Hi Zac,

If you definitely can't get anything bigger because you need to stick to house power, then that's one thing. But if you can get a 6KW HMI PAR set up right you could probably light the whole scene with just that and some bounce cards inside the shop. Perhaps you could afford the bigger unit by not hiring any other units for the inside?

I find with lower-budget work a real trap is using loads of low powered units, all of which get set up individually with good intents - but when they're all on it inevitably ends up being a bit of a mushy mess. If you can cut the units right back to one or two but up the power, you'll almost certainly get a more striking look.

Just a thought. Good luck with the shoot!
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#14 Kiarash Sadigh

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 07:21 PM

"The color balancing with the CTO swatches is a neat trick for run and gun shooting when you dont have the time to properly light your set. If you have the time its better to color correct the individual light so you have more control."

Actually it is a great trick for when you have all the time in the world, not just run and gun. It offers very exacting correction of lighitng fixtures in the field with a good monitor and scope. Partially because of how a TV camera sees light and how much better your pictures end up when you stay in the cooler area of white blance which offers more film aestetic like pictures from any video camera than using het warmer spectrum.


That's right, you can also work on the Green-Magenta grid if you want...I worked on this show where we constantly had to match two cameras due to numerous locations changes (XD cams) and not two cameras always have the same exact color rendition...and guess what? swatch books where my best friends...
In a way you can work with the combination of these two techniques, meaning that you can cool down your interrior using white balance and just slightly warm up your source and get the mired shift you want without CTO-ing you HMI too much thus losing intensity.
good luck!
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