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Scarlet is 3K


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#1 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 11:53 AM

http://www.red.com/nab/scarlet

* NEW 2/3" MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST)
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH
* 4.8" LCD
* 8X T2.8 RED ZOOM LENS
* FULL AUTO OR FULL MANUAL SHOOTING MODES
* HDMI and HD-SDI
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* STILL MODE
* COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* WI-FI CONTROL

Specs subject to change, as usual.
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#2 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 12:36 PM

NAB pics and price announced under 3K milestone:

http://www.redmodz.com/
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#3 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 12:56 PM

NAB pics and price announced under 3K milestone:

http://www.redmodz.com/


Hi Emanuel,

I think this will upset many Red One owners who cant really afford a working system. The richer ones will just upgrade to Epic leaving Red One in the middle somewhere.

Stephen
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:00 PM

The paper specs look good - I had a feeling they'd go for 3k rather 2k.

However, I'll wait for the accessories, because it doesn't look that ergonomic as it's currently rigged in the photos. I'd imagine the camera is rather front heavy.

If they're going for the larger market, they'll need to make sure they don't have any bugs. That worked on the RED One, but the market they seem to be going for at this lower price won't be into the beta testing. The EX1 had a couple of issues around the lens which resulted in a large thread on DVInfo.
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#5 Max Jacoby

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:07 PM

Is that 8x T2.8 lens fixed or will one be able to use different glass?

T2.8 is really slow for 2/3" cameras, most modern zooms are T1.6 or so, that's nearly 2 stops faster.
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#6 John Sprung

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:26 PM

I'm guessing that this 2/3" is a single chip Bayer, not a traditional 2/3" three chip prism block. Anybody know for sure?


-- J.S.
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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 01:47 PM

Is that 8x T2.8 lens fixed or will one be able to use different glass?

T2.8 is really slow for 2/3" cameras, most modern zooms are T1.6 or so, that's nearly 2 stops faster.


If it's built in, a faster zoom would need a much larger pocket. From the pictures so far, it does look like the lens is built in.

Interesting to find out the rating the camera has, I've used the T3 Zeiss and you do need to start getting the lights out for interiors.
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#8 DJ Joofa

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:03 PM

I'm guessing that this 2/3" is a single chip Bayer, not a traditional 2/3" three chip prism block. Anybody know for sure?


-- J.S.


Yes, I concur with you. I think this is all in agreement with what Graeme Nattress of Red One has said several times, that he measures 78% percent resolution out of his Debayering algorithms. Lets round it to 80%. So 3K * 0.8 = 2.4K for Scarlet, and assuming Red Epic is also Bayer, 5K * 0.8 = 4K.

It appears Red One is going for cleaner 2K and 4K options, and hence claim in some sense "true" 2k and 4K cameras by introducing 3K and 5K Bayer patterns cameras.
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:24 PM

My God, if I was willing to make that much money by writing some pretty words on a spec sheet and selling it...

P
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#10 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:26 PM

Hi Emanuel,

I think this will upset many Red One owners who cant really afford a working system. The richer ones will just upgrade to Epic leaving Red One in the middle somewhere.

Stephen

No Stephen, I don't think so. Under 3K is terrific for everybody. Only a small part can upgrade towards a $40K based system. And this does not necessarily mean the best ones. In general, the best (moviemakers) are not the 'richer' ones.

Edited by Emanuel A Guedes, 14 April 2008 - 03:31 PM.

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#11 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:29 PM

My God, if I was willing to make that much money by writing some pretty words on a spec sheet and selling it...

P

How can you say this when there are more than 1500 units (according the information coming from Keith :)) being delivered nowadays?
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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:33 PM

> How can you say this when there are more than 1500 units (according the information > coming from Keith :) ) being delivered nowadays?

Because none of them are finished; none of them meet the spec sheet which was so breathlessly announced in like fanfare a few years ago, and it is impossible for any of them ever to do so.
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#13 Jérôme Keller

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:33 PM

One thing's for certain, Scarlet, the Red's unwanted (?) stepchild, is one ugly mother. Mrs. Leigh will be rotating in her grave by now, not very flattering. It better make some pretty pictures to make up for that ugly mug.

It's scheduled for early 2009, late summer is probably more like it (knowing RED's track record in THAT department). The EX1 ships now. A lot can happen until then, the competition is not asleep, I wonder how much sense it makes to announce products that far ahead. They could have eassily announced it at NAB 2009 if it wasn't for the hype factor.

The specs don't look too glorious either. A still mode was to be expected since it comes with a still camera sensor. A fixed lense isn't too helpful either. The price I take it will not include ANY accessories, and we know what that means (but hey, at least it's compatible with many other shitty RED accessories, how practical). 120 FPS sounds sweet and the 100 MB/SEC RAW recording might be a big improvement on the MPEG bottle neck (are we talking bits or bytes?). But the big question is, who needs 3 K or rather 2.4 K (after debayering), and what's with all the 5K's and 4K's and 3K's anyway? Seems RED plans its whole marketing strategy around a bunch of silly meaningless numbers.

Time will tell, but at this point the competition really hasn't much to be worried about, so far we have two big promises wrapped around an eternal beta camera, is this where the revolution already comes to a stop?
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#14 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:43 PM

I dunno. I can see this camera as a nice alternative to the HVX, which is getting slightly senior all in all. I'd love an interchangeable lens, though, as was mentioned a T2.8 isn't exactly super fast. Still, I feel the Scarlet will compete pretty well due to it's price point. I'm more interested in seeing the images it creates of course. I was not bowled over by the Red Images, but not totally disappointed either. In any case, I'm looking forward to the scarlet. A company I shoot with on occasion here in Philadelphia is probably going to invest in it, so I'm sure i'll have it in my hands sooner or later.
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#15 Tom Lowe

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:40 PM

Fixed lens is a major, major mistake, IMO. Hopefully they will reconsider this. Also, I am baffled as to why they did not make the sensor 35mm sized. 2/3" is random and rules out 99% of the glass I would like to use on it. Nearly EVERY single person who uses this for cinema stuff is going to put a frankenstien 35mm adapter on it one way or another, so why not start at 35mm size in the first place?

I love the idea of 3K RAW shooting (to finish at 2K or 1080p) and high framerates.
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#16 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:44 PM

Yeah I'd kill for a nice PL mount on the front; and theoretically, couldn't one use S16mm glass on it then with it's 2/3" size? I'm not positive, but I think it would be possible.
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#17 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 09:55 PM

Yeah I'd kill for a nice PL mount on the front; and theoretically, couldn't one use S16mm glass on it then with it's 2/3" size? I'm not positive, but I think it would be possible.


Yes, you could even use R16 glass on it if you so desired, for it will fit the 2/3 sensor. I have wondered if using older cine glass on those HD cameras (without a 35mm adapter) would take away (some of ) the ugly, clinical sharpness and add some soul to the image. Not having interchangable lenses on cameras is moot point, though.

I wonder who is going to be the first company to come out with a small, yet shoulder mounted, 24p HD camera with interchangeable lenses and under-overcrancking capatilities at under 5k?
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#18 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 10:03 PM

Probably red if they're reading this; or I could see sony doing it.
JVC tried it, as far as I recall, with their fujinon lens using contraption; it had an adapter for PL.
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#19 Michael Nash

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 10:11 PM

One thing's for certain, Scarlet, the Red's unwanted (?) stepchild, is one ugly mother. Mrs. Leigh will be rotating in her grave by now, not very flattering. It better make some pretty pictures to make up for that ugly mug.


Please, it's obviously a Pentax spot meter with a mattebox attached... ;)
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#20 John Sprung

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 10:30 PM

Nearly EVERY single person who uses this for cinema stuff is going to put a frankenstien 35mm adapter on it one way or another, so why not start at 35mm size in the first place?

How does that work with a fixed lens? The ones I'm aware of mount like a lens on the camera, then have a PL or whatever mount on the front for the 35 format lens.



-- J.S.
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