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"Asymptomatic" a 35mm trailer


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#1 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:38 AM

Hey everyone,

Recently shot a trailer for a feature I wrote a while back. I have attempted to shoot this trailer 2 times before this, due to lack of talent and funds I wasn't able to begin production. But 3rd times the charm, so they say.
The story takes place during a post-apocalyptic time in America, but we also go back to the time before America was hit with a disease, the same disease that helped to kill King George the 3rd. So during that time, it is a more dramatic setting than horror-thriller. In a nut shell, the story involves two UK extremists, the war of 1775, a cowboy-like bounty hunter, a hemophiliac, a power-hungry soap company(bit of humor) and a widespread disease.
The two UK extremists believe the war of 1775 shouldn't have ended the way it did... where America declared their independence. So, eventually these two spread a disease known as Porphyria throughout America in order to salvage King George the 3rd's plan in a way. Putting America out of power and leaving the UK the most powerful. Only two people on the western side of America(who happened to have been unconscious during the breakout) are still alive(or not affected) and try to figure out what is happening and why. Throughout the screenplay they figure out why but still wonder why they are still alive. The title of the movie is Asymptomatic.
Anyway, onto the set pics and other info. Below you will find a few pics of what was shot. Unfortunately, I didn't have a set photographer there the whole time, but it was two intense days of shooting and another quick day of two more shots done in the morning. Once is a exterior (static) car shot of one of the leads about to receive some info from an anonymous source. Lighting setup was a 575 HMI for his key light, a 2K w/3202 for fill, a 650 w/2xbastard amber for a hair light, 1x1/4 cto and a 2K with some Cyan for a background light.
Another of the male UK extremist preparing the packaging of the disease, HMI(not up in picture) for key and 3 x 500w flood lights w/ Cal Color 90 Red for a background and hair light. Another thrown in as well.
I used my Eclair CM-3 and Cooke S2/3's. Stocks used, primarily '05 and some of the new V3 '19 which I thought came out fantastic for being in a low light setting.
I will try and get some frame grabs once I get the D5 tape from the transfer.

http://s296.photobuc...nt=DSC_0004.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...nt=DSC_0194.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...nt=DSC_0126.jpg

-Benjamin
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#2 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:29 AM

Hi again,

I've got some un-corrected frame grabs available to look at. Every shot other than "dead_bodies", "Leon_chess_piece" and "Leon_searches" was shot on w/ 5205. Those three mentioned above was shot with 5219 which came out better than I expected as far as grain structure and tightness is concerned, also held shadow detail a lot better than anticipated too. I almost feel like WYSIWYG with this stock, very pleasing color rendition for my tastes.
Unfortunately some of my shots were a bit soft, I will be getting my lenses collimated soon and will be performing some other lens tests too to help avoid this in the future. Only the wider lenses were soft during a few shots, makes me wonder... Anyway, take a look.

http://s296.photobuc...am_speaking.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...an_speaking.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...=ChessPiece.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...=DeadBodies.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...freyWriting.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...=Leon_inCar.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...nChessPiece.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...rent=LeonCU.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...nt=LeonDave.jpg

http://s296.photobuc...rchingAllan.jpg

Thanks for looking!

-Benjamin
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#3 Hal Smith

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:34 AM

.......... Only the wider lenses were soft during a few shots, makes me wonder... Anyway, take a look.
Benjamin

That's consistent with collimation issues since back focal distance gets more and more critical as the lense focal length gets shorter. If you're going to use the lenses exclusively on PL cameras, I'd talk to Guy at ZGC and see if he thinks it's a good idea to have them collimated ON the adapter.
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 04:08 PM

Benjamin,

In another thread you had mentioned that you were going to use your Cooke SPII/SPIII lenses on a PL mount camera and were considering using one of Les Bosher's PL mount adapters. If that is the case and you shot these clips with the Cookes and the Les Bosher adapter, let me know and I will explain why your wide angle shots came out soft.

Best,
-Tim
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#5 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 10:11 PM

Benjamin,

In another thread you had mentioned that you were going to use your Cooke SPII/SPIII lenses on a PL mount camera and were considering using one of Les Bosher's PL mount adapters. If that is the case and you shot these clips with the Cookes and the Les Bosher adapter, let me know and I will explain why your wide angle shots came out soft.

Best,
-Tim


Hey Tim,

Yeah, I used them with the adapter. I had a feeling something like that was going to happen due to an offset of FFD.
Oh well, you live you learn right?

-Benjamin
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 02:49 PM

Benjamin,

Let me start by saying Les is a great guy and I really admire the designs he has come up with over the years. I love the simplicity of the "Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers (for Cooke type Lenses)" that he designed and made.

I bought one from him this past year and use it with my Cooke Speed Panchro set and my Cooke Kinetal set. I did discover one thing about the adapter though. When you put the adapter on the camera, and use a Flange Focal Distance (FFD) Gauge, the FFD is dead on what the camera's PL mount reads without the adapter in place. So he nailed that dimension, which is not terribly common. I can't tell you how many PL mount adapters I've seen where the adapter increases or decreased the FFD of the camera by a substantial amount when it is installed, which really causes havoc with wide angle lenses.

So if your Cooke Speed Panchro lenses have been collimated in their native mount (the ARRI standard mount) then they will be fine with the Les Bosher "Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers (for Cooke type Lenses)" adapter on the camera, WITH ONE CAVEAT.

When I first got the adapter I noticed that when I put any of my Cooke lenses in it, and put the adapter on the camera, the collimation was off (it was long). I could not understand how this was possible because the lens had been collimated and was dead on, and when I checked the FFD of the camera with Les' adapter in place it was dead on, but when I put the lens in the adapter and collimated it to the camera, it was long (and this is much more noticeable on the wide angle lenses). After much checking and measuring I discovered the problem. In the batch of adapters that Les made (of which mine was one) the spring loaded grips that come in from the side of the adapter and capture the barrel of the Cooke lens, are machined just a little high on one side, and what they do is push the lens slightly out of the adapter, increasing the FFD, and making the collimation "long". So I carefully took the adapter apart, removed the excess material, and reassembled the adapter. Now it works great, and all my Cookes are collimated perfectly with or without the adapter on them.

I would see if your adapter is having the same issue as mine was before you have all your Cooke lenses collimated with the adapter in place. If you can remedy the adapter situation, then you can have all your Cooke lenses collimated in their native mount (ARRI Standard) and they will work with the "remedied" adapter, as well as on any other ARRI standard mount camera, or PL mount camera. If you collimate the lenses with the adapter in place on each lens, you are stuck with using those lenses only with a PL mount camera, and with that one adapter in place all the time.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,
-Tim
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#7 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 06:22 PM

Benjamin,

Let me start by saying Les is a great guy and I really admire the designs he has come up with over the years. I love the simplicity of the "Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers (for Cooke type Lenses)" that he designed and made.

I bought one from him this past year and use it with my Cooke Speed Panchro set and my Cooke Kinetal set. I did discover one thing about the adapter though. When you put the adapter on the camera, and use a Flange Focal Distance (FFD) Gauge, the FFD is dead on what the camera's PL mount reads without the adapter in place. So he nailed that dimension, which is not terribly common. I can't tell you how many PL mount adapters I've seen where the adapter increases or decreased the FFD of the camera by a substantial amount when it is installed, which really causes havoc with wide angle lenses.

So if your Cooke Speed Panchro lenses have been collimated in their native mount (the ARRI standard mount) then they will be fine with the Les Bosher "Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers (for Cooke type Lenses)" adapter on the camera, WITH ONE CAVEAT.

When I first got the adapter I noticed that when I put any of my Cooke lenses in it, and put the adapter on the camera, the collimation was off (it was long). I could not understand how this was possible because the lens had been collimated and was dead on, and when I checked the FFD of the camera with Les' adapter in place it was dead on, but when I put the lens in the adapter and collimated it to the camera, it was long (and this is much more noticeable on the wide angle lenses). After much checking and measuring I discovered the problem. In the batch of adapters that Les made (of which mine was one) the spring loaded grips that come in from the side of the adapter and capture the barrel of the Cooke lens, are machined just a little high on one side, and what they do is push the lens slightly out of the adapter, increasing the FFD, and making the collimation "long". So I carefully took the adapter apart, removed the excess material, and reassembled the adapter. Now it works great, and all my Cookes are collimated perfectly with or without the adapter on them.

I would see if your adapter is having the same issue as mine was before you have all your Cooke lenses collimated with the adapter in place. If you can remedy the adapter situation, then you can have all your Cooke lenses collimated in their native mount (ARRI Standard) and they will work with the "remedied" adapter, as well as on any other ARRI standard mount camera, or PL mount camera. If you collimate the lenses with the adapter in place on each lens, you are stuck with using those lenses only with a PL mount camera, and with that one adapter in place all the time.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,
-Tim



Hey Tim,

Thanks for sharing your experience. The problem is different than the one you are having, though is causing similar offsets in the FFD.
The problem with this adapter in particular is that the lens is not held tightly in the adapter, this is due to the width of the tongue in the adapter being a bit smaller than the hole it is meant for on the lens. So, when I put it in, it's loose and is made even more apparent when I try to pull focus. You can see / feel it pretty clearly. Whats even worse is I can get critical focus properly(very carefully), but when the camera runs, the adapter vibrates in the mount causing it to vary in the FFD. This became shockingly apparent in the dailies of the Asymptomatic trailer I shot. You could see the focus spot on at the head of every shot as the flashed frames go by and frame by frame('til motor gains synch) it looses it's proper FFD and then the subject becomes soft. I've talked to Les about this and he assured me a replacement will be made sometime. I really hope he sends one. I know he's a reputable guy, I've just been shooting more 35mm lately so theses lenses are my only ones, without a good adapter, what do I have? Though I've found a way to remedy this with a bit of gaffers tape, it's not efficient and takes about 1-2 minutes everytime I want to change lenses and get the tape just right.

-Benjamin
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 08:37 PM

Benjamin,

Couple of things. When you say, "when the camera runs, the adapter vibrates in the mount" it sounds like you are saying the whole PL mount adapter is loose in your PL mount on the camera. If that is the case I would think it would be a problem with your PL mount, not with the adapter. A properly set up PL mount can deal with an adapter (whether it is Les' adapter or someone elses) of different thicknesses. So no matter what the thickness, the PL mount can clamp down on it tightly.

As far as "The problem with this adapter in particular is that the lens is not held tightly in the adapter, this is due to the width of the tongue in the adapter being a bit smaller than the hole it is meant for on the lens", this is a common issue with the Cooke Speed Panchro lenses. Because on average the lenses are over fifty years old, and most have seen extensive use, those slots in the lens have opened up quite a bit, which makes them slightly loose in any adapter and in any "ARRI standard mount" on a camera. That will effect you somewhat when pulling focus, but otherwise it will not effect the FFD or collimation of the lens.

If your film is sharply in focus until the camera starts to run and when the camera is running at speed the focus is soft, but the focus comes back to sharp when the camera stops, that sounds like a pressure plate issue.

Best,
-Tim
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#9 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 11:22 PM

Benjamin,

Couple of things. When you say, "when the camera runs, the adapter vibrates in the mount" it sounds like you are saying the whole PL mount adapter is loose in your PL mount on the camera. If that is the case I would think it would be a problem with your PL mount, not with the adapter. A properly set up PL mount can deal with an adapter (whether it is Les' adapter or someone elses) of different thicknesses. So no matter what the thickness, the PL mount can clamp down on it tightly.

As far as "The problem with this adapter in particular is that the lens is not held tightly in the adapter, this is due to the width of the tongue in the adapter being a bit smaller than the hole it is meant for on the lens", this is a common issue with the Cooke Speed Panchro lenses. Because on average the lenses are over fifty years old, and most have seen extensive use, those slots in the lens have opened up quite a bit, which makes them slightly loose in any adapter and in any "ARRI standard mount" on a camera. That will effect you somewhat when pulling focus, but otherwise it will not effect the FFD or collimation of the lens.

If your film is sharply in focus until the camera starts to run and when the camera is running at speed the focus is soft, but the focus comes back to sharp when the camera stops, that sounds like a pressure plate issue.

Best,
-Tim


Hey Tim,

The PL mount is fine. It's the lens in the adapter that vibrates. I've shot tests with Zeiss Super Speeds and Optar lenses at wider focal lengths with no problems. I've also thought that it might be a pressure plate issue, but had(the lens loose in the adapter issue) confirmed by George at Optical Electro house.

Also, I don't find this "on average the lenses are over fifty years old, and most have seen extensive use, those slots in the lens have opened up quite a bit, which makes them slightly loose in any adapter and in any "ARRI standard mount" on a camera." to be the case. I have an arri-16-S and have mounted my Cooke lenses on that camera, no problem, tight as tight can be. Also tried my other Arri Standard lenses with the adapter and get the same issue. Oh well, I'll just have to wait a while for a new adapter.

-Benjamin
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#10 Chris Keth

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:56 AM

Hope the adapter works out well. How do you like the Cooke S2/3s? I remember kind of talking you into getting them, I hope you like them as much as I do.
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#11 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 03:30 AM

Hope the adapter works out well. How do you like the Cooke S2/3s? I remember kind of talking you into getting them, I hope you like them as much as I do.


Hey Chris,

I really want to use these lenses to their fullest potential, but it kinda makes it difficult with a defective adapter. Other than that, I love these lenses. They're exactly what I need right now and I honestly don't see upgrading to a better set anytime soon. I got a steal of a deal!

-Benjamin
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#12 Tim Carroll

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:50 PM

The PL mount is fine. It's the lens in the adapter that vibrates.


You had originally written:

but when the camera runs, the adapter vibrates in the mount


So I am confused. Is the lens vibrating in the adapter, or is the adapter vibrating in your PL mount? If the adapter is vibrating in the PL mount, as you originally wrote, then the PL mount has issues. If it is the lens vibrating in the adapter, that is a different issue.

Also, I don't find this "on average the lenses are over fifty years old, and most have seen extensive use, those slots in the lens have opened up quite a bit, which makes them slightly loose in any adapter and in any "ARRI standard mount" on a camera." to be the case. I have an arri-16-S and have mounted my Cooke lenses on that camera, no problem, tight as tight can be. Also tried my other Arri Standard lenses with the adapter and get the same issue.


I can only speak from my own experience on this. The slot for the tongue on my Speed Panchro lenses are loose compared to the slot for the tongue on my Kinetal lenses and on my other ARRI standard mount lenses. My set has probably had more use than yours.

Best,
-TIm
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#13 benjamin aguilar

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 02:19 PM

You had originally written:



So I am confused. Is the lens vibrating in the adapter, or is the adapter vibrating in your PL mount? If the adapter is vibrating in the PL mount, as you originally wrote, then the PL mount has issues. If it is the lens vibrating in the adapter, that is a different issue.



I can only speak from my own experience on this. The slot for the tongue on my Speed Panchro lenses are loose compared to the slot for the tongue on my Kinetal lenses and on my other ARRI standard mount lenses. My set has probably had more use than yours.

Best,
-TIm


Tim,

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse. It's the lens in the adapter that vibrates.

-Benjamin
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