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Mass market Scarlet will help pro product?


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#1 Mike Brennan

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:28 AM

The "soccer mom" comment from TED may be a indicator that Scarlet is heading for more of a mass market than niche market.

I dont know what the tipping point is for something to go from niche to mass market category, for the sake of argument lets say 50000 units.
Anyway, given that Scarlet will probably have similar codec and design elements to the REDone and EPIC do we think that sales of thousands of Scarlets will drive significant development and improvements in REDs pro cameras?

By the way if Panavision aren't thinking about branding a AVC cam or digital stills camera they are missing out.
Dont hold your breath, a most senior Euro film facility exec last year didn't know that RED had an onboard recorder..... "RED... yeah... but cables..you know, what does it record on!" was the comment.

Brains guts and drive is what this industry has needed for a decade, Jim has it and marketing froth and the gagel of fanboys aside, the industry is better off with him in the ring.




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#2 Chris Kenny

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:48 AM

The "soccer mom" comment from TED may be a indicator that Scarlet is heading for more of a mass market than niche market.

I dont know what the tipping point is for something to go from niche to mass market category, for the sake of argument lets say 50000 units.
Anyway, given that Scarlet will probably have similar codec and design elements to the REDone and EPIC do we think that sales of thousands of Scarlets will drive significant development and improvements in REDs pro cameras?


It's more units to amortize R&D over -- and that's got to be a big part of why Red is able to sell at the prices it does. I also suspect a lot of film students are going to buy Scarlet, and become familiar with the Red brand and with Red workflow. That could have a major payoff a few years down the road when those students move out into the industry.
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#3 Scott Fritzshall

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:05 AM

I think there's kind of a limit to just how "mass-market" it can be assuming that it sticks with the whole RAW format. For truly consumer-level products, people expect them to "just work." See cameras that record straight to DVD, for instance. It "just works," and your mom doesn't have to learn what "de-Bayering" is or how to export it or whatever in order to use it. In order to reach that [very large] section of the market, they would have to make a camera that shows you exactly what you're going to get and then gives it to you in the simplest manner possible. I suspect that it probably wouldn't be too difficult for them to make a camera that could do that, but then I wonder what would set it apart from other cameras that already do it.
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 04:11 AM

I guees you have to ask how many people use RAW as against jpeg on their stills camera? I think you'll find the jpeg figures are way higher, the video formats are much easier to use and still have advantages for a lot (perhaps most) of work.
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#5 Sam Wells

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:00 AM

I agree in that I suspect this will depend on the comfort factor of a RAW workflow. (FINE with me !)

It seems for now Sony et al are betting on matrixed output - EX-1, EX-3. etc.

Although _some_ time down the road a RAW option of some kind will appear on the camcorders I'm sure.

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#6 Chris Kenny

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:08 AM

I think there's kind of a limit to just how "mass-market" it can be assuming that it sticks with the whole RAW format. For truly consumer-level products, people expect them to "just work." See cameras that record straight to DVD, for instance. It "just works," and your mom doesn't have to learn what "de-Bayering" is or how to export it or whatever in order to use it. In order to reach that [very large] section of the market, they would have to make a camera that shows you exactly what you're going to get and then gives it to you in the simplest manner possible. I suspect that it probably wouldn't be too difficult for them to make a camera that could do that, but then I wonder what would set it apart from other cameras that already do it.


The Scarlet's spec sheet says it also does RGB recording. Either way, though, this all comes down to software. Shoot some raw photos on a still camera and hook it up to a Mac running iPhoto... you can work with them just like any other photos you'd import into iPhoto, except of course there's more information there if you want to make adjustments. If iMovie or other consumer apps eventually support Red's formats natively, this won't be a barrier to consumer use.

That said, Scarlet will probably sell mostly to film students, no-budget indies and other sorts of "image enthusiasts", rather than to people who just want to shoot their kids' soccer games.
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#7 DJ Joofa

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:26 AM

I agree in that I suspect this will depend on the comfort factor of a RAW workflow. (FINE with me !)

It seems for now Sony et al are betting on matrixed output - EX-1, EX-3. etc.

Although _some_ time down the road a RAW option of some kind will appear on the camcorders I'm sure.

-Sam


How many people who use HD cameras understand the compression (H.264/MPEG/DCT/Hadamard Transform/Entropy encoding/.....) associated with these cameras?

The fact that HD cameras are easier to use is because of standardization of format. If RAW format is standardized, as Adobe appears to be making strides, then at the user level RAW workflow can be made as transparent as HD formats, and people can use it without resorting to even know that it RAW, as their software applications would support it natively.

Edited by DJ Joofa, 17 April 2008 - 11:27 AM.

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#8 Walter Graff

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:13 PM

The "soccer mom" comment from TED may be a indicator that Scarlet is heading for more of a mass market than niche market.


They better have distribution deals for that. Soccer moms care less about RED. I couldn't see RED doing more mass appeal than the 100,000 film wannabes that reside all over the web. But then again, that would be a pretty good audience. Then again, I always found it interesting how over an over we hear people think that one particular camera or manufatuer is going to corner the market. Sort of like saying there is a Toyota Prius that gets 47 MPG and is inexpensive so everyone will want one. Truth is, they sell very few of Prius'. People in any consumer area are attracted to far more things than simply the numbers that all the wannbes spread like a flu virus. If RED, Sony, Panasonic, or any of the others had a camera that simply couldn't be compared spec wise, it wouldn't matter, folks choose by more than just specs. Always have and always will, just as they pick cars be many likes and tastes. If not we'd have one car to buy and one camera to buy. Today Toyota alone sells 27 brands of cars. Scarlet will have a market just like every other camera, none more than just this months flavor of the week.
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#9 Thomas James

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:54 PM

Actually the Soccer Mom camera is a very good idea. Most consumer HD cameras only run at 30 frames per second and have terrible fast motion capability. With the Red you can shoot at 120 frames per second which totally eliminates motion blurring and you get awesome slow motion playback. Plus you can get some awesome frame grabs again without any motion blurring. A lot of Soccer Moms complain about motion sickness which a high speed camera would help reduce. A Soccer Mom may not know a lot about technical details but they can judge good picture quality when they see it. It may not be that every Soccer Mom will buy a Red camera but all it takes is one shooter to record the event and they can give out copies to the other Moms. Red may be overkill for an AYSO event but overkill is a lot better than hearing complaints about picture quality.
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#10 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:17 PM

I think the soccer mom line is just good spin. The camera is just too big and heavy to be used as a casual camera that you just carry around. There are too many compact cameras out there that will do a great job recording good quality personal material and will cost less. How many people carry a Bolex sized camera to shoot home movies?

That's not to say that you won't get filmmaker, who's a soccer mom using a Scarlet.
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#11 Walter Graff

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:58 PM

Some of you need a life. Get outside. Go and play.
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