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Yes another S16mm gig


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#1 John Atala

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 06:53 PM

Hello to all,
I'll be shooting two shorts on S16mm on the upcoming weeks. I've shot quite a few projects on S16mm and some experimental stuff on 35mm. I've studied and tested pull and push processing and bleach bypassing, but all on 35mm. Have push processed 7205 with nice results.

I'm aiming for a very nice and Sharp look for these films, very low contrast and fine grain, so i opted for pull processing 1 stop and overexposing by 1 1/2 or 1 1/3 stop. The over exposure should give me a finer grain and a lower contrast; the low con is even better since I'm going with a DI. I've also opted for a post house that uses CCD based telecine (shadow), since I've been told that the Tube based ITK and DIAMOND (these are the ones available here in Rio) are o.k. for 35mm but is just too soft for s16mm.


What are the pros and cons of pull processing, am I missing anything here, is there any loss? Finer grain and flat contrast is what i want....

p.s. I'm also using a canon 8-64 lens (which is sharp enough) and staying away from 500 asa stock. i might go with the 7217 or the 7205, for day scenes and v3 7219 for nite (just two scenes).....

thanks a lot guys!
João (john) Atala
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#2 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 12:57 PM

What are the pros and cons of pull processing, am I missing anything here, is there any loss? Finer grain and flat contrast is what i want....

p.s. I'm also using a canon 8-64 lens (which is sharp enough) and staying away from 500 asa stock. i might go with the 7217 or the 7205, for day scenes and v3 7219 for nite (just two scenes).....

thanks a lot guys!
João (john) Atala


Pull processing does make for finer grain with flat contrast images, as far as I have tested, unless the film is not fresh, which can make it unpredictable. I once shot expired 7277 and decided to pull it one stop and the grain EXPLODED to the point of the footage not being usable, but it remained very flat contrast.

Also, you say that you will stay away from 500 ASA stock yet later mention you might use 7219 for night scenes, which is 500 ASA . . .

Edited by Saul Rodgar, 19 April 2008 - 12:57 PM.

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#3 John Atala

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 02:16 PM

We're getting the stock brand new from Kodak.
I'm using the V3 19 as an exception to what I've said before; there's two night scenes in which I'm also pulling. Some friends are telling that pulling will not work on scenes with too much dark areas, "you'll end up with gray!!", but that's kind of what i want.
Ok, the pulling process lowers grain because of overexposure, yet on the lab, developing is faster; so... does pull processing the stock lowers visual sharpness / awareness?
Is visual sharpness linked to apparent grain? In my mind I can perfectly conceive a image with no apparent grain yet with no visual sharpness. I want the critical focus to be apparent and real, with no grain. Am I making any sense here? I'm sorry English is my third language.

thanks again.
John

Edited by John Atala, 19 April 2008 - 02:17 PM.

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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 08:10 PM

Hello to all,
I'll be shooting two shorts on S16mm on the upcoming weeks. I've shot quite a few projects on S16mm and some experimental stuff on 35mm. I've studied and tested pull and push processing and bleach bypassing, but all on 35mm. Have push processed 7205 with nice results.

I'm aiming for a very nice and Sharp look for these films, very low contrast and fine grain, so i opted for pull processing 1 stop and overexposing by 1 1/2 or 1 1/3 stop. The over exposure should give me a finer grain and a lower contrast; the low con is even better since I'm going with a DI. I've also opted for a post house that uses CCD based telecine (shadow), since I've been told that the Tube based ITK and DIAMOND (these are the ones available here in Rio) are o.k. for 35mm but is just too soft for s16mm.


What are the pros and cons of pull processing, am I missing anything here, is there any loss? Finer grain and flat contrast is what i want....

p.s. I'm also using a canon 8-64 lens (which is sharp enough) and staying away from 500 asa stock. i might go with the 7217 or the 7205, for day scenes and v3 7219 for nite (just two scenes).....

thanks a lot guys!
João (john) Atala


why not use the '01 or '12 for day exteriors. you won't need to pull either to get tight grain.
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#5 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:06 AM

If you are really trying to push the clean look with S16, why would you use a zoom, which will also be slower?
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#6 John Atala

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 10:00 AM

If you are really trying to push the clean look with S16, why would you use a zoom, which will also be slower?


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#7 Joshua Reis

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:12 AM

The Kodak 7201 is by far the lowest grain color negative film-stock out there. If you have the light, it would be your best option for what you are desiring as their is a significant increase in grain in the 7205 and 7212. I have experienced my cleanest Super 16 transfers on a Spirit 2k telecine. The Spirit has pleasant way of making the grain appear soft while still providing a sharp image. Using the latest telecine technology with a mild de-grain pass will give you grainless NTSC transfers. The canon 8-64 is a sharp lens, but it has a tendency to easily flare when shooting into lights and hot sources. Stepping up to the newer Canon 7-63 will give you a slightly sharper image and less flaring. Best of luck with everything.


Hello to all,
I'll be shooting two shorts on S16mm on the upcoming weeks. I've shot quite a few projects on S16mm and some experimental stuff on 35mm. I've studied and tested pull and push processing and bleach bypassing, but all on 35mm. Have push processed 7205 with nice results.

I'm aiming for a very nice and Sharp look for these films, very low contrast and fine grain, so i opted for pull processing 1 stop and overexposing by 1 1/2 or 1 1/3 stop. The over exposure should give me a finer grain and a lower contrast; the low con is even better since I'm going with a DI. I've also opted for a post house that uses CCD based telecine (shadow), since I've been told that the Tube based ITK and DIAMOND (these are the ones available here in Rio) are o.k. for 35mm but is just too soft for s16mm.


What are the pros and cons of pull processing, am I missing anything here, is there any loss? Finer grain and flat contrast is what i want....

p.s. I'm also using a canon 8-64 lens (which is sharp enough) and staying away from 500 asa stock. i might go with the 7217 or the 7205, for day scenes and v3 7219 for nite (just two scenes).....

thanks a lot guys!
João (john) Atala


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#8 John Atala

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:09 AM

thanks a lot !
I'll check for the new canon glass.
John
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Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

The Slider

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Aerial Filmworks