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Bauer A512


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#1 Lenny Walsh

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:53 PM

I am looking into buying a S8 camera and i've found that i really like the Bauer A512. I like that is has a shutter angle of 180. My only problem/question is with the ASA that it has. I was also looking at the canon 814 and 1014 but the angle is only up to 150 and i don't want to dish out more $$ for the XLS versions.

Bauer A512:

ASA (daylight) 25 100
ASA (artificial) 40 160

I would really like to use Kodak Vision2 200T and 500T stock. Will this be possible with this camera at all or is the speed too fast?

If it wont work i guess ill just save up more money for the Canon 814/1014 XLS.
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#2 Jim Carlile

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 04:09 AM

I'm not the Bauer expert here, but you should have no problem running the V200T, at least. The 500 is another matter-- I doubt it on that one, as this is the case with most cameras, especially the later 70's models.

You know, Kodak sets up the cartridge for the neg stocks to take out the 85 filter and also set the exposure meter to the lower daylight ASA for its particular speed-notch indice.

So, the film will be slightly overexposed-- either 1/3 to one full stop on the Bauer (not sure which) but that is appropriate for this film. Kodak prefers it overexposed. You'll need an external 85, though, unless you color-correct in post.

A kind-of hard and fast rule: cameras that will read ASA 160--which means most all made after about 1966-- will run V200T satisfactorily. It will be overexposed to some degree or another, but that is OK. Tri-X is always overexposed, too-- for the same reason.

You can compensate for this by using the manual override on the Bauer, but I'll let others explain how. You can also manually close down the aperture a stop or two to run the 500T as well.

Edited by Jim Carlile, 22 April 2008 - 04:10 AM.

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#3 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 05:29 AM

Actually the bauer can't meter daylight emulsion asa speeds at all. If you put a daylight film in there like 100d and de-selected the internal 85 filter (the bauer won't do this autiomatically) then it will be rated as 160 asa. So really the bauers have asa ratings of 40 and 160 tungsten and daylight. Its just that a tungsten film of 160 or 40 asa shot in daylight with the filter in place will have an effective asa of 100 or 25.
So, yes, the bauers are fine for 200t neg, but not 500 if used on auto. If you ever plan to shoot 64t then don't expect to do so using a bauer on automatic. Nice cameras, shame about the auto exposure asa options.
Just get a cheap 814, and buy an even chepaer (and very limited) 514xl for shooting 200t in low light.
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#4 Lenny Walsh

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 10:14 AM

Thanks for the info. Looks like ill just search around for a cheap 814 XL. Its too bad the Bauer doesnt have more ASA settings.
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#5 Chris Burke

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:25 PM

I am looking into buying a S8 camera and i've found that i really like the Bauer A512. I like that is has a shutter angle of 180. My only problem/question is with the ASA that it has. I was also looking at the canon 814 and 1014 but the angle is only up to 150 and i don't want to dish out more $$ for the XLS versions.

Bauer A512:

ASA (daylight) 25 100
ASA (artificial) 40 160

I would really like to use Kodak Vision2 200T and 500T stock. Will this be possible with this camera at all or is the speed too fast?

If it wont work i guess ill just save up more money for the Canon 814/1014 XLS.


Does the camera have manual control over the aperture? If so, problem solved. If not and you are still going to use the 500T, you could use an ND filter. No?
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#6 Bart Smith

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

Does the camera have manual control over the aperture? If so, problem solved. If not and you are still going to use the 500T, you could use an ND filter. No?


It has manual exposure - lift up the flap at the front of the top of the camera. Easy to miss if you don't know it's there.

It meters TTL, so an ND would be no good.
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#7 Lenny Walsh

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 02:19 PM

Could i use an ND filter (if need be) but just use a different light meter?
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 05:32 PM

Actually the bauer can't meter daylight emulsion asa speeds at all. If you put a daylight film in there like 100d and de-selected the internal 85 filter (the bauer won't do this autiomatically) then it will be rated as 160 asa. So really the bauers have asa ratings of 40 and 160 tungsten and daylight. Its just that a tungsten film of 160 or 40 asa shot in daylight with the filter in place will have an effective asa of 100 or 25.
So, yes, the bauers are fine for 200t neg, but not 500 if used on auto. If you ever plan to shoot 64t then don't expect to do so using a bauer on automatic. Nice cameras, shame about the auto exposure asa options.
Just get a cheap 814, and buy an even chepaer (and very limited) 514xl for shooting 200t in low light.


When shooting 500T set it manually. 500T is known as an indoor film and in most situations one will probably be on the very low end of the f-stop number scale anyways. (meaning f 1.8, 2.0, 2.8)
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#9 Jim Carlile

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 01:00 AM

If the Bauer has a filter pin then it will definitely retract the internal 85 filter with a daylight notchless cartridge. Otherwise, what's the point of the filter pin?

I think the question for the Bauer is whether the filter pin also does its other function, which is setting the exposure meter to the 'daylight' ASA of the cartridge's speed-indice. Some cameras don't, because their manufacturers in the early 70's didn't want to redesign them to run newer daylight, no-filter high-speed films.

The A512 may not, in which case it will always keep the ASA at the higher (tungsten) speed, which would be ASA 160, 40, whatever else, if anything (experts say nothing else.)

So V200T and Tri-X will run fine at the Bauer's ASA 160--about 1/3 stop overexposed.

Bauer experts-- is the A512 SMPTE compliant? We need to make that list sometime.....

If you can get a 512, go for it-- it's a better, newer camera than most of the big silent 814s. Its manual exposure override will take care of any film speed.
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#10 Gerard Furber

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:41 PM

The Bauers DON'T have a filter pin. The filter is entirely operated by the switch and the cartridge will not over-ride that, so you don't have to cut filter notches into the 200T and 500T carts to use the built in filter.

You can also use the filter with Tri-X to boost the contrast slightly. Plus X isn't bad in these cameras either, despite the underexposure.

If using Velvia or Ektachrome 100D in daylight, just remember to flip the switch to tungsten, as the cartridge will not do this for you due to the lack of filter pin.

Ektachrome 100D will require manual exposure and Ektachrome 64T will need either manual exposure or pull/push processing to 40T or 160T. The camera reads it at 40T but you can re-notch it to 160T should you so wish.
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#11 Jim Carlile

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 03:02 AM

You can also use the filter with Tri-X to boost the contrast slightly. Plus X isn't bad in these cameras either, despite the underexposure...

Ektachrome 100D will require manual exposure and Ektachrome 64T will need either manual exposure or pull/push processing to 40T or 160T. The camera reads it at 40T but you can re-notch it to 160T should you so wish.


If Plus-X runs OK at the 2/3 stop underexposure, what about 100D? It uses the same notch protocol. Is 2/3 of a stop too much for that color film?

The manual override ability makes it easier, I think, then push/pulling at the lab. All you need to do is just tweak the exposure up a bit, and it's fine. And with it locked in place there's no chance of the meter hunting around, either.
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#12 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 10:12 PM

Thanks for the info. Looks like ill just search around for a cheap 814 XL. Its too bad the Bauer doesnt have more ASA settings.


Sorry for the tardiness in joining in to this thread. I just finished an article on the A 512 that goes to print in the next issue of Super 8 today.

It is not SMPTE-compliant in asmuch as it has a filter pin missing. The operation of the filter by the switch only is an advantage, as you don't have issues with non-SMPTE-compliant notching from Kodak's side in their Vision2 and Vision3 range for Super 8.

The ISO 40 & 160 reading is absolutely fine with film stocks like P-X, T-X, V2-200 and V-50. You can actually trust Bauer cameras on achieving a great density in the film stocks exposed.
For all other film stocks off the beat, like E-64 or E-100, just use manual aperture control which is implemented in a great way in all Bauer cameras, using the aperture ring metaphor with its topside control ring!

Please read this post of mine that elaborates on some lateral issues re. exposing & notching. In fact, the notch issue isn't as troublesome as it is made, and current film stocks are much less demanding in their exposure needs as many people make it appear.

CLICK HERE TO READ POST

Sometimes, I think that people loose track of more cinematographically relevant issues for their camera gears, like manual aperture control and regular CLA rather than ultra-correct notching, plus forget many unique features that far outweight notch-compliance (which only some Canon and Nizo sound cameras have, out of all S8 cameras): such as variable shutter, bright viewfinder, multicoated lenses, actually a really great lens to start with (!), plus many production camera features and functions like rewind, time exposure, timer etc. that cannot be really well be emulated with digital means - there is nothing like a real time lapse shot instead of speed-up effects in some editing suite.

In light of the above, I sincerely hope you did not go for a Canon as replacement for an A 512 or any other Bauer. That was quite an irresponsable tipp! The Bauer A 512 is the third-best S8 production camera ever made according to our tests put in words here (click me), with a formidable lens in shape of the Schneider 12x6mm. That lens will bear more responsibility for top images than any notch issue or ill-exposure off 1/2 f-stop ever will. And I have to see any images by a non-Canosound Canon camera that comes even close to even Sun Optical-manufactured lenses used in Bauer's compact camera range!

Cheers,

-Michael
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#13 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 10:18 PM

Lenny, if you havn't 'til now, do also read Bart's and Jim's posts in this thread here on the Nizo 6080, where is discusses the same issues of effectual exposure / density in relation to exposure index notching and how to make use of all that with film stocks.

CLICK HERE
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#14 Ian Rivlin

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:03 PM

If you open the back of a Bauer A512 and press on the ASA button with a pencil etc, you'll see that subtle pressure changes result in associated apertures in the viewfinder. - If you try this with the (for instance) S715XL and similar Bauers, you'll see that pressing the film speed button just gives two different settings - ie 40asa and 160asa. Although I haven't tried 64asa Ektachrome in my A512, I am strongly of the opinion that it will work well. According to my manual (and if I've interpreted the wording correctly) all speeds between 25asa and 200 asa will be accommodated.
I'd welcome any further input on this issue. The A512, in my opinion is a brilliant and super sophisticated camera that can do things that no other Super 8 is capable of. (Its animation function with the pull out exposure meter is quite extraordinary). If the A512 does provide full function for EK64 film, then the camera is just about perfect. Someone made mention of the A512 xl.... Does this mean they made a model with a 220 degree shutter? - Mine's got the 180 degree shutter.

As an aside, I have a Bauer S715XL and an Agfa Movexoom 10. Does anyone know how these cameras go with other filsm than 40/16asa? - I have commented on the effects of pressing the asa index button but so many times, the story is much more complicated than this simple feature.

Ian
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#15 Pavan Deep

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:07 AM

I have a Bauer A512 and S715XL, they're my favorite two cameras the A512 is my particular favorite which I've had since 1994. I think it has an excellent lens and I've never had a cartridge jam or jitter in it. I prefer the A512 more than my Nizo 6080. It's asa is limited to 40 and 160 but I have used the 200T in auto exposure mode, switched the filter switch to the sun setting when I filmed with it outdoors and everything came out perfectly, I have even used the new100d using in manual exposure and it was prettyusimple.

P
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#16 Elliott Landy

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:32 AM

http://www.film.proj...4_new_cams.html
modifies Bauer cameras so they can perfectly expose Ektachrome 64. I think you can also use the modification for other films as well—ones that do not exactly match the 40/160 film speeds which the camera automatically recognizes.
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