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Rescanning in Better Quality


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#1 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 04:52 PM

So, a friend of mine did a shoot on S16mm, and a transfer to DVCam, for his edit. Problem is, so far as I can tell, he has no Keycode burned in.
Now, it was only 5600 Ft of film but to be cost effective he just wants to scan his selects into a higher quality SD format, something like D-Beta to captured uncompressed into FCP for an online.

The question is this; since he has no keycode burn, is it possible to just export an EDL from FCP and scan up these selects from his film? He has only used 2 tapes for it (2 different post houses, one for the primary film and one for reshoots) and each tape was given it's own reel# in FCP.
Also, the film was laid down in order (flat 1, flat 2 etc. . )
Is such a thing possible? To just export that EDL and scan selects based on the tape TC it would be using? I'm not positive myself, to be honest, ya know, and I figured I'd ask for him.

He also has all the uncorrected footage (LESS 800FT) on a D Beta tape; so I also though, in my hubris, that perhaps he could go from that D beta tape to tape correction just based on the TC (which should match the DVCam down conversion?) out to HDCam (corrected and for posterity) before capturing that uncompressed into FCP and tacking on the other 800Ft to the tail end from a spirit?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated not only for him, but also for myself if i ever find myself in a similar situation.
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#2 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:58 PM

Just going off of TC alone its not really possible. Now, you say he has no burn in but did he make flex files at the telecine? If so, assuming that your friend has an accurate Cinema Tools database (admittedly a big assumption) then yes he could use that to create a list that a telecine op can use to scan selects. The problem is that there is just no easy way to check the accuracy of the cut list against picture as there would be if he had both time code and key code burn in. Both are essential when working in CT /FCP and going back into the bay.

It sounds like you and he may be uncertain about the work flow. Really the most cost effective work flow for small amounts of film going for a tape finish looks like this.

1- Telecine all footage to D-beta with first pass color correction. make DVCAM simos with a TC window burn. The D-Betas are the show masters and the DVCAMs are used for editing.
2- Digitize the DVCAMs.
3- Edit in FCP in a 29.97 timeline (assuming that you are not protecting for a neg cut)
4- Export and EDL
5- Do a D-beta on-line to create your VAM.
6- Tape to Tape D-beta final color correction to create CTM.
7- Lay back audio to your CTM and make dubs from that.

Another option, that may be less expensive:
1- Telecine all footage direct to a hard drive as uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 (basically the codec equiv. of D-beta)
(1.5 or telecine to D-beta and have the lab digitize the tapes to 10bit.)
2- Backup all files on at least 1 other drive.
3- render out low res version of 10bit files (if editing on an slower system)
4- edit project in high or low res depending on your system.
5- If editing in low res, when picture is locked, blow away the low res media and re-link the project to the 10bit media. This is an "in the box" on-line.
5- color correction in Color or some other program.
6- Do your titles and VFX @ 10bit res. and add them to your FCP time line.
7- edit / Mix audio in Protools then and add it to your FCP time line.
8- Output 10bit 4:2:2 29.97 quicktime master file.
9- Take the quicktime to your post house and have them out put it to D-beta so you now have a broadcast quality tape master.

One potential shortfall with this system is that in FCP unless you check your edits on an NTSC monitor you may have some edits that fall on the second field of a frame and this will throw off the output. All your in points for edits need to be on the first field of each frame.

There are other ways to do it but those are two that work.

Also sometimes its not actually cost effective to just do selects. if the material is on a number of different lab rolls and if there is any confusion on the selects list you end up burning money sorting out what is what in the bay.

Really with a small batch of film it can be best to do a hi-res telecine of all the footage with first pass color correction right off the bat and never go back into the telecine bay.

Edited by Douglas Hunter, 25 April 2008 - 06:59 PM.

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#3 John Brawley

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:01 PM

So, a friend of mine did a shoot on S16mm, and a transfer to DVCam, for his edit. Problem is, so far as I can tell, he has no Keycode burned in.
Now, it was only 5600 Ft of film but to be cost effective he just wants to scan his selects into a higher quality SD format, something like D-Beta to captured uncompressed into FCP for an online.

The question is this; since he has no keycode burn, is it possible to just export an EDL from FCP and scan up these selects from his film? He has only used 2 tapes for it (2 different post houses, one for the primary film and one for reshoots) and each tape was given it's own reel# in FCP.
Also, the film was laid down in order (flat 1, flat 2 etc. . )
Is such a thing possible? To just export that EDL and scan selects based on the tape TC it would be using? I'm not positive myself, to be honest, ya know, and I figured I'd ask for him.

He also has all the uncorrected footage (LESS 800FT) on a D Beta tape; so I also though, in my hubris, that perhaps he could go from that D beta tape to tape correction just based on the TC (which should match the DVCam down conversion?) out to HDCam (corrected and for posterity) before capturing that uncompressed into FCP and tacking on the other 800Ft to the tail end from a spirit?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated not only for him, but also for myself if i ever find myself in a similar situation.




So you're really wanting to what's called a neg select. It's a small amount of film so I doubt it's going to really save much time (and money) anyway by doing a neg select. If the orginal transfers were put down without stopping the chain, then it should be pretty accurate to use the FCP edl. Even if not it'll likley only be off by a few frames. Get the edl into the *new* facility and ask them for generous handles. Even a few seconds.

Then you'll be sure to get everything and he can go back and re-conform later on his own time. Make sure you take an offline with you for the operator to compare.

Good luck...

jb
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:48 PM

No Flex files at all, sadly. I told him to put a call into the transfer house he'll be using in the end anyway, just to check. Thanks for all the responses and constant support.
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#5 Chris Burke

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 06:46 PM

No Flex files at all, sadly. I told him to put a call into the transfer house he'll be using in the end anyway, just to check. Thanks for all the responses and constant support.




I second what has already been stated here. with only 5600' of film, rescan the whole lot. Why D beta then upconvert to HD? You pay for the telecine room and colorist's time, don't scan selects it will probably cost you more. Rescan all your footage as uncompressed HD 10 bit 4:2:2 or if you can 4:4:4.
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