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Eumig Nautica and Ektachrome 64T


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#1 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:41 AM

I was wondering if anyone had success using 64T in the Eumig Nautica ?
I know we can...
1-look for velvia, but it's hard to find now.
2-tape a .2 ND on the front of the metering sensor, but it comes off under water.
3-use a filter on the lens, but it just collects extra water drops in the sea
4-try and fit a .2 nd in the gate, but I'm not really up for that.

I was thinking that with the filter switch to tungsten the metering would think it was K40 tungsten and measure for 40 asa. 64T is 40 asa in daylight. So would it measure correctly ?
I know it would be blue, but I kind of like that and can correct it a bit in post.
Just wondering if this filter logic makes any sense ?
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#2 Gerard Furber

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:33 PM

There's another solution- re-notch the cart to 160T (doesn't have to be 100% accurate in a 40/160 camera, as long as it misses the upper notch sensor)

THEN

Have the film push processed. Some labs will do this for free (e.g. Nanolab in Australia)

It will give extra grain but also saturation and the extra speed will be a boon underwater.

If you want to retain finer grain, you can just not re-notch, shoot at 40T and ask the lab to pull process it as 40T.
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#3 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:57 AM

That would work too, but was my other solution valid? Would 64T in a camera that was set to Tungsten meter at 40 and properly expose the film even though giving it a blueish color?
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#4 Steve Wallace

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:44 AM

Shoot in daylight mode, and use an 85b over the lense. 64t - 2/3rds = 40 asa. I've done it and it works perfect. Even underwater with the PMA. The focus is fine (ie the thickness of my 85b doesn't throw it out of focus).
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#5 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:42 AM

Shoot in daylight mode, and use an 85b over the lense. 64t - 2/3rds = 40 asa. I've done it and it works perfect. Even underwater with the PMA. The focus is fine (ie the thickness of my 85b doesn't throw it out of focus).


Not a bad idea, but don't you mean in "tungsten mode" (switch to bulb) otherwise in daylight mode you will have two filters in place and the image will be very warm. Is that right ?
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#6 Steve Wallace

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 08:29 PM

Yes you are correct. I mean tungsten/bulb... lol. I was tired when I posted that.

You are tricking your camera into thinking the film is 40 ASA. Works like a charm.

Edited by Steve Wallace, 02 May 2008 - 08:30 PM.

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#7 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 05:48 AM

Yes you are correct. I mean tungsten/bulb... lol. I was tired when I posted that.

You are tricking your camera into thinking the film is 40 ASA. Works like a charm.



sounds like a great idea. No water gets in between the camera lens and the filter ?
and the pma filter on top of that fits as well ?
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#8 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 07:56 PM

No water gets in between the camera lens and the filter ?


Not if the Wratten 85 is M46 (don't start experimenting with step-up rings here ;) ) and attached well and tightly to the Eumig Panorama-Viennon 1:1.9 / 9-30mm, and at least up to a diving depth of 7 to 10 meters. Although the camera is designed for up to (or rather down to) 40 meters, pressure might start to let water make its way in-between if the filter windings aren't well made. But frankly, I think this should work fine. After all, Eumig offered various attachments itself.

A colleague shot an entire film with a then-new Nautica as part of a Red Sea expedition for the Musée Océanographique à Monaco, with great results. The Eumig lenses are great pieces, like the Makro-Viennons as on those cams Alessandro uses for his expo work: c.f. here down the Top Camera Guide list
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#9 Steve Wallace

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:06 AM

sounds like a great idea. No water gets in between the camera lens and the filter ?
and the pma filter on top of that fits as well ?


I never had any problem with water inbetween the camera lens and filter, I just screwed it on fairly tight. I did get water between the filter and the PMA adapter though (though the holes slit in the PMA). It is something to watch for. After shooting, I let it dry and later washed it with fresh water, so I wouldn't buff any salt grains into the filter.
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#10 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 09:13 AM

I never had any problem with water inbetween the camera lens and filter, I just screwed it on fairly tight. I did get water between the filter and the PMA adapter though (though the holes slit in the PMA). It is something to watch for. After shooting, I let it dry and later washed it with fresh water, so I wouldn't buff any salt grains into the filter.


Thanks,I'll give it a try. I was thinking to try the Kulh UT 18 (50 asa daylight agfa) but I never shot it and didn't want test it on my Indo trip this month.
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#11 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 11:04 AM

Just two things:

1)

As you brought up Kahl as a company and potentially using Kahl UT 18 (supposedly Agfa RSXII 50 reversal film), I think it is my duty to bring this thread here (click me) to your attention, which critically discussed Kahl Media Art Film, its film stocks and business practices.

This is not intended to be a warning or discommendation to do business with Kahl, just - in case you are not familiar with this subject (which might or might not be the case) - an additional helping information flow to you.


2)

When you registered, you were kindly asked to use as username your real first and last name. So far, you have chosen not to do so. However, this is forum board regulation and adhered to by essentially everyone here. Tim Tyler as well as seconding moderators would appreciate if you could hence amend your current username accordingly. You can do it via the "My Controls" menu at the top right side of this browser-featured website. Thanks!

If you are not happy with this rule, you can join a debate on this here (click me).
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#12 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 05:23 AM

Just two things:

1)

As you brought up Kahl as a company and potentially using Kahl UT 18 (supposedly Agfa RSXII 50 reversal film), I think it is my duty to bring this thread here (click me) to your attention, which critically discussed Kahl Media Art Film, its film stocks and business practices.

This is not intended to be a warning or discommendation to do business with Kahl, just - in case you are not familiar with this subject (which might or might not be the case) - an additional helping information flow to you.


Thank You for that information.

2)

When you registered, you were kindly asked to use as username your real first and last name. So far, you have chosen not to do so. However, this is forum board regulation and adhered to by essentially everyone here. Tim Tyler as well as seconding moderators would appreciate if you could hence amend your current username accordingly. You can do it via the "My Controls" menu at the top right side of this browser-featured website. Thanks!

If you are not happy with this rule, you can join a debate on this here (click me).



Sorry about that. Taki is my real name, but I added my last name as well. Hope that's ok now.
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#13 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:01 PM

1) No problemo. Further questions? Just ask! :)

2) This is greatly appreciated here! B)
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#14 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 10:38 AM

I never had any problem with water inbetween the camera lens and filter, I just screwed it on fairly tight. I did get water between the filter and the PMA adapter though (though the holes slit in the PMA). It is something to watch for. After shooting, I let it dry and later washed it with fresh water, so I wouldn't buff any salt grains into the filter.


Did you ever just try a .2 ND filter on the lens instead of the 85B ? It would have the 2/3 of a stop you need for the 64T and you would keep the daylight or tungsten switch the way it used to be.
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#15 Steve Wallace

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 10:28 PM

Did you ever just try a .2 ND filter on the lens instead of the 85B ? It would have the 2/3 of a stop you need for the 64T and you would keep the daylight or tungsten switch the way it used to be.

I have never because I wanted to correct for daylight. It would work just like you say, .2 ND = 2/3rds (same as the 85B). But if you were to do that, you would get an uncorrected image you could add red to in post. In my telecine they added red, so its pretty much the same.
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#16 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 01:19 AM

I have never because I wanted to correct for daylight. It would work just like you say, .2 ND = 2/3rds (same as the 85B). But if you were to do that, you would get an uncorrected image you could add red to in post. In my telecine they added red, so its pretty much the same.


Actually if you had the switch to "daylight" It would engage the 85 filter and meter you should not have any blueish image. Your way is a bit better because you don't ned the in camera filter and the 64T is a bit better with an 85B, but the difference is only 200 degrees Kalvin.

I have been having trouble finding a good thin 85b 46mm filter in stock anywhere here in Paris (should of got one in NY when I was at B&H last week) So I will have to try to find a .2ND for the lens otherwise I will glue a .4ND gel on the meter, re notch the cartridge to be 160 ASA and hope it does not come off in the surf.
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#17 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 01:25 AM

Not if the Wratten 85 is M46 (don't start experimenting with step-up rings here ;) ) and attached well and tightly to the Eumig Panorama-Viennon 1:1.9 / 9-30mm, and at least up to a diving depth of 7 to 10 meters. Although the camera is designed for up to (or rather down to) 40 meters, pressure might start to let water make its way in-between if the filter windings aren't well made. But frankly, I think this should work fine. After all, Eumig offered various attachments itself.

A colleague shot an entire film with a then-new Nautica as part of a Red Sea expedition for the Musée Océanographique à Monaco, with great results. The Eumig lenses are great pieces, like the Makro-Viennons as on those cams Alessandro uses for his expo work: c.f. here down the Top Camera Guide list


I know they are great, I shot a Documentary with one, and a lot of it was in the water. The dry land images were even better then those from the Nizo 6080, maybe the more closed shutter, who knows, but it was great. All with the last batch of K40. You can see a bit here...
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#18 Steve Wallace

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 03:02 PM

I have been having trouble finding a good thin 85b 46mm filter in stock anywhere here in Paris (should of got one in NY when I was at B&H last week) So I will have to try to find a .2ND for the lens otherwise I will glue a .4ND gel on the meter, re notch the cartridge to be 160 ASA and hope it does not come off in the surf.

I just use one from Hoya, its not all that thin, but I've had no trouble with the PMA on top of it. Like it doesn't throw off the focus or anything.
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#19 Taki Bibelas

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 03:09 PM

I just use one from Hoya, its not all that thin, but I've had no trouble with the PMA on top of it. Like it doesn't throw off the focus or anything.

Thanks, I just got two here from Hoya a 85C and a 2ND. I think the 85C will not be enough and the film will be too blue and a bit over exposed. I found a 85 from B&W that I can pick up before I leave for the trip, close enough, otherwise I'm pretty sure the 2ND and the switch set to daylight should work fine.
Unless I got something wrong ???
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#20 Steve Wallace

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Posted 10 May 2008 - 06:17 PM

If you set it to Daylight, won't it meter for ASA 25 (ie 40/25 160/100)? thus over exposing 2/3rds of a stop? That is why the 85b / tungsten mode works. Because the camera thinks the film is 40 ASA Tungsten but really is it 64T brought down to 40 ASA through use of the external filter.
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