Jump to content


Photo

Shooting off a TV screen


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Panayiotis Salapatas

Panayiotis Salapatas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Greece

Posted 02 May 2008 - 02:47 PM

Hi,

Any suggestions on how to shoot off a TV screen (35mm at 24fps) in the US and not get a flicker from the 60Hz cycle?

Thank you
ps. the 35mm camera is a Moviecam compact
  • 0

#2 Patrick Neary

Patrick Neary
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Portland, OR

Posted 02 May 2008 - 03:54 PM

Hi-

If the TV is very prominent, like a close-up, to be extra safe you need to set your shutter at 144 and use the synco box to phase the roll bar. You can also get the little doo-hickie that sits behind the TV and reads the TV's CRT, and automatically phases the shutter to match it.

Or just set your shutter at 144 and shoot away, that's worked fine for me too.
  • 0

#3 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 02 May 2008 - 06:29 PM

If the TV is smallish in the BG and not to important, go with the plain old 144 degree shutter. If it's a major story point, there are 24 frame video services that will put your material on their CRT's at 24 fps with shutter sync. That lets you shoot the film completely normal, with a 180 degree shutter.

With freewheeling 144, you still get a roll bar, but its height is zero lines. If you can see the set well enough, you can see the offset on horizontally moving objects. (Of course, if there isn't much movement, you can get away with this.)

Another possibility is to use an LCD display instead of a CRT. Should be tested, but they're usually much better behaved than old time tube TV's.




-- J.S.
  • 0

#4 Keith Walters

Keith Walters
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2219 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:23 AM

Hi,

Any suggestions on how to shoot off a TV screen (35mm at 24fps) in the US and not get a flicker from the 60Hz cycle?

Thank you
ps. the 35mm camera is a Moviecam compact

As John said, all modern LCD screens are completely strobe-free, and very cheap now.
If the TV has to be an old-fashioned type to suit the script, the easiest solution is to find an old junked CRT TV, get a repair shop to remove the picture tube (as this can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing) and fit an LCD screen in its place.

In the past, a common trick was to use 25 fps PAL video and a PAL (or multistandard) TV and run the camera at 25 fps, synced to the video frame rate, either automatically or manually (with the "phasing" button). When the film is then run at 24fps, the action slows down by 4%, but nobody will notice that.

If there are actors in the scene this becomes more of a problem if they have to speak, because slowing down the sound recording to match the picture would produce a sudden 4% pitch change, which is quite noticeable.

If it's only a short project such as a commercial, you can simply shoot the whole thing at 25fps, because in most cases people won't notice an overall 4% pitch change, only it it changes from scene to scene.

Otherwise, another common trick is to always have the speaking actor's back to the camera and have them dub the sound in later.

Nowadays, most larger post production houses have pitch changing equipment that solves this problem. Even some really cheap DVD players now have this feature!

Edited by Keith Walters, 03 May 2008 - 12:25 AM.

  • 0

#5 Patrick Neary

Patrick Neary
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Portland, OR

Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:20 AM

Holy Jumping Jesus that sounds like a lot of work just to get rid of a rollbar! :)
  • 0

#6 Paul Bruening

Paul Bruening

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2858 posts
  • Producer
  • Oxford, Mississippi

Posted 03 May 2008 - 12:02 PM

Seems like a green screen thing could be applicable here. Just paint the CRT screen on a junk TV and add the animated image in post? Anyone know the trick to that?
  • 0

#7 Patrick Neary

Patrick Neary
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Portland, OR

Posted 03 May 2008 - 07:41 PM

I guess you could, but again, it's very simple and takes about 10 seconds to set the shutter at 144 degrees.

If you want to get really fancy, hook up the synco box and phase the shutter, which takes an additional 30 seconds, problem solved.

Or do as Keith suggests and plop an LCD screen into an older TV case.
  • 0

#8 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:43 PM

Seems like a green screen thing could be applicable here. Just paint the CRT screen on a junk TV and add the animated image in post? Anyone know the trick to that?


Don't paint it, just use some Rosco DigiComp green tape.
  • 0

#9 Patrick Neary

Patrick Neary
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Portland, OR

Posted 03 May 2008 - 09:51 PM

It seems like doing this as greenscreen just adds a lot of post work where you don't really need it.
  • 0

#10 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 05 May 2008 - 02:06 PM

Seems like a green screen thing could be applicable here. Just paint the CRT screen on a junk TV and add the animated image in post? Anyone know the trick to that?

Actually, just feed 100% full frame green only to the TV set. You want a bright bright green, and since there's no content, the 144 degree shutter will work fine. Video playback is easier to do and usually looks a little better, but sometimes you don't have the plate in time, and have to burn something in. The other potential issue is if the actors have to react to something that's in the TV plate. It helps to have the real thing.



-- J.S.
  • 0

#11 Keith Walters

Keith Walters
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2219 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 06 May 2008 - 01:55 AM

Seems like a green screen thing could be applicable here. Just paint the CRT screen on a junk TV and add the animated image in post? Anyone know the trick to that?

That approach works reasonably well for a locked-off shot where the camera is directly in front of theTV screen. If the camera is off to the side however, the perspective will be wrong and you will have to correct for that in the keyed image. If you have to do a tracking shot or a zoom, having an actual image on the TV screen is really the only way to go. And if you are using a photochemical post chain (ie no DI), in all cases it this will make things vastly easier.
  • 0

#12 Panayiotis Salapatas

Panayiotis Salapatas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Greece

Posted 07 May 2008 - 10:37 AM

If I use an LCD screen then let's say off a mac laptop and shoot the image through Youtube I should be OK. Would it matter if I shot the video it at 25p (rather than interlaced) and then film it at 24fps?

Thanks
  • 0


Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

CineLab

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Technodolly

Opal

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

The Slider

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc