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Good complementary daylight stock to 5279


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#1 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 02:18 AM

We're doing a little pre-production planning for Blood Moon Rising and are considering what stocks we might be using. I'm relatively certain we're gonna go with 5279 for the color saturation and contrast for the nighttime work which is most of the film unless I get an absolutely SMOKIN' (and I mean it would have to be just fell off the truck smokin') deal on 5218 or 19, however there are a few scenes we will probably be shooting under fall desert daylight conditions. We are considering using the 5279 with a daylight filter but I'm not so sure that's the way we should go. What would be a good complementary daylight stock to 5279?

Also because I've got to try and get the best deal I can on filmstock and want to keep as many options open as possible, what would be the Fuji equivalent to 5279 and it's daylight counterpart (This, of course, assumes we will go with a stock that complements 5279. Should we decide it might be more interesting artistically to contrast the night work with the daylight scenes to help more define the emotional and artistic needs of the various themes contained within the script, we'd then have to look at different stocks more suited to that purpose which will no doubt prompt another thread about CONTRASTING film stocks to 5279 :D .) Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated. I do plan on doing some tests but I would like a starting point so I'm as least not shooting blind here. Thanks-Steven B)
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#2 John Holland

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 11:44 AM

If you are using Kodak 5201D 50asa or 5217T 100asa tungsten ,64 daylight . Dont think Fuji have anything as contrasty as 5279 . Their 64d is contrasty but dont think you will get such a good deal if you mix your manufacturers.
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#3 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:25 AM

If you are using Kodak 5201D 50asa or 5217T 100asa tungsten ,64 daylight . Dont think Fuji have anything as contrasty as 5279 . Their 64d is contrasty but dont think you will get such a good deal if you mix your manufacturers.


I was thinking maybe 5201 but wasn't sure. I'm not familiar with 5217, I'll have to do some research on it. Off hand, what would you say are the pros and cons on 17 and how does it compare to 01?

I definitely wasn't planning on mixing Fuji with Kodak, I don't even know if they would cut together that well. Contrast is a consideration but the color saturation is probably the more important quality I'm looking for. Does Fuji make a stock that has above average color saturation qualities? Has anyone mixed the 2 and how'd it work out?
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:35 AM

I've mixed Fuji and Kodak and it works fine if used for different types of scenes.

Fuji has a contrasty saturated stock called Vivid 160T which sounds like would be great for your day exterior scenes to match to 5279.

Otherwise see if you can find some 5245 lying around... Also, Fuji 64D is fairly contrasty.
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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 11:54 PM

Oh cool! Thanks for the input, Dave. ;)
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#6 K Borowski

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 09:44 PM

I agree that '45 would probably be your best bet as it is an older emulsion, hence closer grain structure and also the opportunity to get a similarly good deal for '45 that you got with the '79.

Now please tell us you aren't going to play Russian Roullette with your footage by trying to process it all yourself! :(

Again, stick to DIY printing for now if you must dabble in finishing at all.
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#7 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 01:32 AM

I don't know, probably, though I seriously doubt whether I'll do any of the actual processing personally at all. My machines will, but they'll be ran by people with far greater aptitude for such work than myself, THOUGH I may assist just for the experience. We won't be doing anything fancy, at the most a 1 to 2 stop push. I have reluctantly sold the little Bray processor and have used the cash to get some of Paul Bruning's equipment which includes a processing machine with an optical track processor attachment, a continuous contact printer which will complement my step printer very nicely, a densitometer, a big gennie with a trailer to put it on, a Fearless Panaram camera dolly and a car trailer which I plan to equip with fold up outrigger, lockable platforms to use as a process trailer. I just bought a bread truck style van to use as a camera truck and a very cool 30 ft. bus to ferry the cast and crew to and from location We also have a Ford Econoline PA van but still need a motor home for hair and makeup. I've got my eye on one that's been partially gutted where the kitchen should be and would be perfect for our needs. We'll see what I can do to make a deal on it.

I also picked up a Domino/Solitaire 4x4 combo unit I'll probably have to go get in Burbank next week IF I can't find an LTL to get it hauled out here between now and then, so we will now have the capacity to do a 4K DI for color correction and VFX. I still want to get an optical printer at some point just to have one but our lab is coming along nicely so there's no sense in wasting all the work and money spent plus it's literally an option I can't afford to ignore as we probably can't afford to process conventionally and at 100K+, CERTAINLY can't afford a conventional DI. As my mom says Poor folks got poor ways. Besides if we can figure this whole processing thing out, we should be able to sell our services to other indy film makers down the road. I also want to build a proper studio and open an VFX devision of Black Sky International Pictures in the future sorta like what Jackson did with Weta only on a smaller scale. I'm also sending one of my guys thought pyro training to get certified so we'll be able to do do some of the stuff we planned for the film and will probably expand that as time goes on. Hell SOMETIME down the road, when I get a little money, I wouldn't mind buying up a few theaters around the country to help with distribution and put some cash back into the production end as a hedge against BO failures. We'll see what I'm able to do. Within the next 3 years, I'd like to be able to put out 2 to 3 low budget films per year and more within the next 5 years with larger budgets. In other words, I want to get serious about this stuff. B)
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#8 K Borowski

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 11:27 AM

Be smart. . . stick to printing. Then at least you can make mistakes and not irreversably loose footage. I'd be happy to lend you video analyser services since you still don't have one. I'll have to set up a new channel and tweak the software, as it's designed for C-41 negs, but at least you won't have to make cinex strips.

Get a good deal on ECN-2 processing from a good lab.
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#9 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 03:50 AM

I.m not sure what's gonna happen as far as processing goes. I'm sure we will probably do some of the non-irreplaceable footage to get an idea of what we're doing and may have someone else do the critical stuff, 50,000 feet at .25 cents a foot is 12,500 bucks at 2 cents a foot my cost if I process using my equipment, it's a grand and I already have most of the chemistry. 12 grand is a LOT of money at least to me at this point. IF I can find a really good deal, I'll consider using a commercial lab, but what's the best price I'll be able to find, 15 cents a foot? That;s still 7500 bucks. It's just gonna depend on what I can do at the time I begin shooting.

I do VERY much appreciate your offer of video analyzer services though, I can't thank you enough! :D Please PM me and give me your contact information, address and most importantly, phone number so we can hammer out the details. I again really appreciate it and hope to talk to you soon. Thanks-Steve B)
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#10 K Borowski

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:39 AM

I.m not sure what's gonna happen as far as processing goes. I'm sure we will probably do some of the non-irreplaceable footage to get an idea of what we're doing and may have someone else do the critical stuff, 50,000 feet at .25 cents a foot is 12,500 bucks at 2 cents a foot my cost if I process using my equipment, it's a grand and I already have most of the chemistry. 12 grand is a LOT of money at least to me at this point. IF I can find a really good deal, I'll consider using a commercial lab, but what's the best price I'll be able to find, 15 cents a foot? That;s still 7500 bucks. It's just gonna depend on what I can do at the time I begin shooting.

I do VERY much appreciate your offer of video analyzer services though, I can't thank you enough! :D Please PM me and give me your contact information, address and most importantly, phone number so we can hammer out the details. I again really appreciate it and hope to talk to you soon. Thanks-Steve B)


The best you'll probably be able to get is 10c a foot. Get a student discount. I hope you're not financing this all yourself. $5000 is quite reasonable. I mean how many hundreds of hours of your time do you have free? At some point you'll realize you're rating your own time at under $2/hr, at which point sending it to a lab is a no-brainer.

Do all of these people who are helping you, realize how many hours you are expecting them to work, for free? I think your volunteer group is going to quickly evaporate when you pay them nothing to do very tedious work. What if your machine needs a repair? Trust me they malfunction far too often when they get old. Think about it.

Howabout the huge pain in the ass inherent in color-balancing footage processed in different machines? And how is it you're willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on print stock and machinery but not a mere $5 grand on a lab bill? You need to be much more realistic about gauging the difficulty of the DIY approach. I guarantee you'll manage to blow that $5K yourself and with much poorer results.

Have you checked the price of a box of roller transport cleanup film? Howabout a roll of ECN-2 test strips? And you realize that this chemistry has a definite lifespan, so you need to shoot this movie and process it before you have to buy a new set of chems.
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#11 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 03:39 AM

All definitely things to consider and mull over. Yes I am financing the entire thing myself which is why money is such an issue. The ONE thing I do have is time. The guys I hire won't be working for free but the money will be short, most of them want the experience, so they're willing to work for short money. The Professionals I have are working dirt cheap because they believe in me and what I'm trying to build out in this desert wasteland, which puts enormous pressure on me to not violate their trust and belief in me. The shoot will be a ball-breaker at a 4 - 6 to 1 ratio over 7 to 10 days at 15 hours a day MOSTLY at night in November and the beginning of December.. It's gonna be a bitch! I have no doubt everyones gonna probably hate me by the end of the shoot but it'll be worth it if this thing comes out even HALF as interesting as what I see in mind I have spent the last few years gathering the equipment I need to make films, camera packages, sound package, trucks, props, lights, dollies, projection equipment, processing, audio transfer and printing as well as knowledge and experience in many areas AND of course MONEY, though lately I seem to be hemorrhaging that particular asset. I keep having to bite the bullet and buy things I know in the long run are gonna save us enormous amounts of cash but are at the moment bleeding away production capitol.

At a $5 grand processing fee for 50K of stock, it starts to get closer to doable, but again, we'll just have to see what the budget allows. If we do process in-house, I'll just have to get lucky and hope the machine holds together for 50K worth of film AND that we don't screw up too bad. Hey if you're not doing anything around that time, maybe you'd consider coming down and supervising for a few days while we're getting the hang of it. We do have the Domino/Solitaire which is suppose to be in near mint condition so digital color correction is now a financial possibility. I MAY even be able to add a a bit of VFX here and there. BTW, just to kinda put your mind at ease, I haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on anything, everything I spent wouldn't come out to 30 grand yet. EVERYTHING is totally professional and in great condition otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. I try to treat this as much as a business as I do an artistic venture and I'm in this for the long haul. I don't want to make one movie, I want to make scores of movies and Blood Moon Rising is the first in of the bunch. Once it's done, we'll know we have everything we need to make a film and we'll have it for the next film. If Blood Moon makes money, then we'll probably resurrect The Black Sky, followed by a sword and sorcery ditty with a working title of The Desert Kingdom then Denmark St. and Loxley unless I get inspired by something else. So see why we might want to become proficient at doing as much in-house as possible? But I am considering all the things you've mentioned and taking them into account before making my final decision. As I said, we'll just have to see what we'll be able to do. B)
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