Jump to content


Photo

Problem with my Canon 1014xls


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Norton

Nick Norton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Student
  • Chicago

Posted 10 May 2008 - 05:19 PM

So, my wonderful gun, my best friend, my right hand man... is terribly ill.


I shot a few rolls no problem, but on location filming some important professional skaters, my 1014 let me down.

With at least 30ft left on my roll of 64t, the END signal flashed in my camera and did not allow the motor to advance the film any further.

Anyone ever heard of this?

Also, since i have been shooting night and day locations off and on, i have been shooting partial cartridges, switching them out, and then replacing the cartridges to finish up the roll.

However, when i take out the partially exposed cartridge, i hear a winding sound like the film in the cartridge either rewound or advanced quite a bit. This never happened with my Canon 518, so i'm not sure if this is normal.


any help would be amazing.

-Nicholas
  • 0

#2 jacob thomas

jacob thomas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Other

Posted 12 May 2008 - 12:43 AM

So, my wonderful gun, my best friend, my right hand man... is terribly ill.


I shot a few rolls no problem, but on location filming some important professional skaters, my 1014 let me down.

With at least 30ft left on my roll of 64t, the END signal flashed in my camera and did not allow the motor to advance the film any further.

Anyone ever heard of this?

Also, since i have been shooting night and day locations off and on, i have been shooting partial cartridges, switching them out, and then replacing the cartridges to finish up the roll.

However, when i take out the partially exposed cartridge, i hear a winding sound like the film in the cartridge either rewound or advanced quite a bit. This never happened with my Canon 518, so i'm not sure if this is normal.


any help would be amazing.

-Nicholas


Sounds like a cartridge jam rather than a camera problem (the end signal is supposed to come on in the event of a film jam).

The advice on this forum and filmshooting.com is to give the cartridge a bang on one or both sides (I can't remember... if you do a search you should find the threads).
  • 0

#3 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 12 May 2008 - 06:35 PM

I share Jacob's view.
This might be a cartridge problem... there are still E-64s out that suffered from production start troubles after the production of S8 carts at Chalon-sur-Saone moved to the US. Also, the repeated insertion and taking-out of the cartridge might have inadvertendly damaged the cartridge core that advances the film (the open spindle to the side that goes interlocks with the motor shaft device in your camera's cartridge compartment. That has happened to me on one occassion when the shooting prodedures put undue stress on this part. Send the defect cart in, and Kodak replaced it without and even developed the 4 meters of exposed footage in the defect cart.... that was 1988... ;)

The cartridge shaking ritual as formulated by Alessandro "Alex" Machi can be found in this post here in the pinned FAQ thread at the top of this Super 8 forum here.

In order to eliminate a camera problem completely, have you inserted a different cartridge, maybe even with a different film stock (Plus-X or Vision2) and attempted to run the camera? If your Canon 1014XLS works with it, then the camera should not have suffered or have a defect.

As regards the winding windy noise that you hear when taking not-fully-exposed cartridges out... is that only the "damage-causing" cart? If so, that might indeed indicate a broken cart spindle, i.e. what I wrote about above. If that is just any normally working cart that is advanced by your camera without any problem, then rest assured that you can actually lightly hear the film's winds in the cartridge move a bit around, especially if you have performed the Machi maneuvre above that loosens the internal winding of the film.

Hope that helped a bit.

Cheers,

-Michael
  • 0

#4 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 12 May 2008 - 06:39 PM

BTW, sorry for the messy English - just returned from overseas babbling all sorts of languages but English plus some sleep deprevation plus time zoning isn't making my orthography, particularly spelling and punctuation look good. After some hours of sleep, I hope that improves. I apologise for that! -Michael
  • 0

#5 Kenneth Wajda

Kenneth Wajda
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 18 May 2008 - 09:22 AM

Hi Nick (and everyone),

Any luck with this? I just picked up a 1014xls in mint condition and mine will shoot about 25' straight through, but in the last 25' of the cartridge, it stops intermittently with the END signal. I can immediately push the trigger again and it will restart, but sometimes only after 3-4 seconds it will stop again. Sometimes it will go 10-20 seconds.

I would be unconfident of it in a real shooting situation. I tried it with three different cartridges, two from other cameras so they were mid-roll, and one new from the start. That is the one I based my situation in the first parargraph on.

Any ideas? Help? Or do I need to send it in, and where would you send it?

Thanks!
Ken
  • 0

#6 Jim Carlile

Jim Carlile
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 May 2008 - 04:49 AM

Don't quite remember too well but doesn't this camera have a gate feeler that works this, much like the Elmo 1012 SXL? If so, try playing with it to see if it's hanging up.

In the Elmo, the idea is that when the film runs to the end it basically goes 'off track' by cartridge design and the perfs disappear. The feeler rides them and senses their absence, and throws a flag into place. In the Canon it's a screen that pops up.

If that's not it, the motor's getting balky, so try running it for awhile at 24fps. It's hanging up the film a bit and triggering the stop.

Try it in hot weather. I bet it will clear up.
  • 0

#7 Kenneth Wajda

Kenneth Wajda
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 21 May 2008 - 11:04 PM

Thanks for your help. I wish I could get my hands on some old film that isn't worth trying to shoot, rather than burning good film to test this.

Ken
  • 0

#8 Michael Lehnert

Michael Lehnert
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1086 posts
  • Other
  • London, UK / Basel, CH

Posted 21 May 2008 - 11:40 PM

Shooting a cartridge or half for test purposes is part and parcel of filmmaking. That's why it's quite handy to just shot some reversal film as a test reel (cheap and cheerful E-64) and project the developed reel with a projector - you avoid the cautious handling with negative and the costs for the telecine. A duo set-up of a negative chain around telecine and a reversal chain around a projector is the most ideal personal studio solution. At least for me.
  • 0

#9 Kenneth Wajda

Kenneth Wajda
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:16 AM

Shooting a cartridge or half for test purposes is part and parcel of filmmaking. That's why it's quite handy to just shot some reversal film as a test reel (cheap and cheerful E-64) and project the developed reel with a projector - you avoid the cautious handling with negative and the costs for the telecine. A duo set-up of a negative chain around telecine and a reversal chain around a projector is the most ideal personal studio solution. At least for me.


That makes sense. I don't have a projector but will put that on the list of things to get. Great feedback, Michael. Thanks!
  • 0

#10 Kenneth Wajda

Kenneth Wajda
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 May 2008 - 08:48 AM

Any ideas for the good to best projectors to look for?

Also, I am looking to get a home movie look of a wedding. Can I shoot at 18fps, saving film in the process and getting that "nostalgic" look? That's what they want. Or would I be better off shooting 24fps because it is better quality or because of issues of telecine?

Thanks for all the help.

Ken
  • 0

#11 andy oliver

andy oliver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 258 posts
  • Other
  • uk

Posted 22 May 2008 - 01:56 PM

Any ideas for the good to best projectors to look for?

Also, I am looking to get a home movie look of a wedding. Can I shoot at 18fps, saving film in the process and getting that "nostalgic" look? That's what they want. Or would I be better off shooting 24fps because it is better quality or because of issues of telecine?

Thanks for all the help.

Ken


Hi, 18fps for a wedding,imo, simply because you've got a little extra on the exposure, handy inside the venue an extra 1/3 of a stop!!. Projectors, depends on your budget, Eumig 810hqs, bauer t82, agfa ls1 or ls2, elmo st160, there are simply loads. For my gash super 8 to mini dv copies i use an elmo gs1200, as one can vary the speed to avoid flicker. I've just picked up an elmo k100sm projector, i think this has vary speed, only £20.00, brand new boxed:)

Say Kenneth are you UK based?? if so i have 10 carts of well outdated k40, i could let you have a couple to perform camera running tests with. I have heard 64t has been jamming, so far, never happened to me, though i have had the jitters!!!!!!!!!
  • 0

#12 Kenneth Wajda

Kenneth Wajda
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 May 2008 - 04:11 PM

Hi, 18fps for a wedding,imo, simply because you've got a little extra on the exposure, handy inside the venue an extra 1/3 of a stop!!. Projectors, depends on your budget, Eumig 810hqs, bauer t82, agfa ls1 or ls2, elmo st160, there are simply loads. For my gash super 8 to mini dv copies i use an elmo gs1200, as one can vary the speed to avoid flicker. I've just picked up an elmo k100sm projector, i think this has vary speed, only £20.00, brand new boxed:)

Say Kenneth are you UK based?? if so i have 10 carts of well outdated k40, i could let you have a couple to perform camera running tests with. I have heard 64t has been jamming, so far, never happened to me, though i have had the jitters!!!!!!!!!


Hi Andy,

Nope, in the US. Thanks for the offer of the carts, though!

I will look for those projectors you mentioned. Thanks for the input!

Ken
  • 0


Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Opal

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

Glidecam

CineLab

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Glidecam

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

CineLab