Jump to content


Photo

Leitz lenses


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Zack Spiger

Zack Spiger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • Other
  • Paris, France

Posted 17 May 2008 - 09:19 AM

Has anyone ever used Leitz lenses on a 35mm motion picture camera? I found a series of 15, 19, 24, 35, 50, 80, 100, 135 T 2.8 advertised on a camera rental website in Paris, France.

Are these converted Leica still lenses or cine lenses?
  • 0

#2 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:20 PM

They are converted stills lenses. Vantage Film, Panavision UK and other companies have similar conversions. The drawback of these Leica lenses is unfortunately that their stops vary between T1.4 and T2.8.
  • 0

#3 Mitch Gross

Mitch Gross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2873 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 17 May 2008 - 02:57 PM

Abel has a set of these as well. The conversion (a very good one) was done by Van Dieman in the UK. Beautiful lenses.
  • 0

#4 Zack Spiger

Zack Spiger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • Other
  • Paris, France

Posted 17 May 2008 - 04:28 PM

They are converted stills lenses. Vantage Film, Panavision UK and other companies have similar conversions. The drawback of these Leica lenses is unfortunately that their stops vary between T1.4 and T2.8.



Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?
  • 0

#5 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 17 May 2008 - 07:03 PM

Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?


a bit off topic

I read somewhere that Kubrik used a Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 for Barry Lyndon?
  • 0

#6 John Brawley

John Brawley
  • Sustaining Members
  • 834 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Atlanta Georgia

Posted 17 May 2008 - 07:20 PM

a bit off topic

I read somewhere that Kubrik used a Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 for Barry Lyndon?


Read about it.

http://www.visual-me...c/len/page1.htm

Of course these days it wouldn't be necessary because the stocks are so much more sensitive....

jb
  • 0

#7 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 17 May 2008 - 07:57 PM

Read about it.

http://www.visual-me...c/len/page1.htm

Of course these days it wouldn't be necessary because the stocks are so much more sensitive....

jb


hmm, are the stocks really that much more sensitive? or is it that most films are going to go through DI, color correction, etc.. so kodak has tailored the film for the current processing?
  • 0

#8 David Auner aac

David Auner aac
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:08 AM

hmm, are the stocks really that much more sensitive? or is it that most films are going to go through DI, color correction, etc.. so kodak has tailored the film for the current processing?


Well, sorry to continue rather off-topic, but since it has come up...

Barry Lyndon was shot on 5254 which was EI 100, AFAIK that was a rather fast color stock for the 70s, if not the fastest. Compare this to todays EI 500 films, thats two and one thirds stops faster!

Cheers, Dave
  • 0

#9 John Brawley

John Brawley
  • Sustaining Members
  • 834 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Atlanta Georgia

Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:35 AM

Well, sorry to continue rather off-topic, but since it has come up...

Barry Lyndon was shot on 5254 which was EI 100, AFAIK that was a rather fast color stock for the 70s, if not the fastest. Compare this to todays EI 500 films, thats two and one thirds stops faster!

Cheers, Dave


Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

jb
  • 0

#10 Dan Goulder

Dan Goulder
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1259 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 18 May 2008 - 10:38 AM

I have a 200mm Leica that's been converted to Arri standard mount. The housing is as solid as anything you'll find in cinematography lenses. If anyone's interested, it's for sale. There is no asking price, although all generous offers will be considered.
  • 0

#11 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 18 May 2008 - 10:47 AM

Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?

The only film that I know of being shot on the Leitz is Est Ouest by French director Regis Wargnier. They are mostly used as Macro lenses, not for whole features.

These are the R-Lenses that got converted, not the M-Series which the Noctilux is part of.
  • 0

#12 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 18 May 2008 - 11:29 AM

Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

jb


well, now really taking over the thread, sorry, but with some much made about color correction, people making careers out of it, what is the benchmark of how well you really need to have good color matched lenses these days???
  • 0

#13 Saul Rodgar

Saul Rodgar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1682 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:17 PM

Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

jb


Personally I would love to shoot with a F.7 lens. I could shoot at night with real moonlight! Look ma, no lights!

Also, the added value of a lens that fast is that one could stay with 100/200 ASA in 16/S16mm and get away from grain, instead of shooting using 500T stock. For 35mm it wouldn't give you that much grain reduction. But being that I shoot S16 film only, (have not graduated to 35mm yet) to me that would be great.

Focus would be hyper critical though . . . But the shallow focus look could also be great, (for those of us who want 16mm to look more like 35mm).
  • 0

#14 John Brawley

John Brawley
  • Sustaining Members
  • 834 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Atlanta Georgia

Posted 18 May 2008 - 03:41 PM

well, now really taking over the thread, sorry, but with some much made about color correction, people making careers out of it, what is the benchmark of how well you really need to have good color matched lenses these days???



I think people have always made careers out of colour correcting, it's just that the tools have changed.

It used to matter that lenses matched and it used to matter that the film came from the same batch. Now-a-days though it can be largely dealt with via a DI.

Of course if you were doing a traditional optical finish, it would be harder to correct out a colour bias...

jb
  • 0

#15 georg lamshöft

georg lamshöft
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 310 posts
  • Berlin

Posted 18 May 2008 - 05:18 PM

I have used Leica/Leitz lenses for still photography.
In my experience, the older lenses (~60/70/80s) are rendering beautiful images but in terms of technical apsects (resolution, contrast, distortion...) they're not better than most new high-end-glass from Canon/Nikon/Fuji.
In the late 80s Leica realized that they cannot compete with Japanese prices and they sold their Canadian faciliity which became ELCAN (Ernst Leitz Canada), this company designed and produced many Panavision lenses (Primo?). Leica insourced their complete lens production back to Germany (I think one Japanese zoom-lens is left) and started to create new, innovative, even more complex and expensive designs (from 2,8/100Apo on). Most >50mm R-lenses and nearly all M-lenses are new designs. These lenses are really, really great! Sadly, the more compact and sometimes more powerful (no retrofocus) M-lenses cannot be adapted to SLR-cameras, including film-cameras.
But most R-Lenses (21-35, 28-90, 35-70, 70-180, 19mm, 28mm, 50mm and all Apos) are great performers and should be quite interesting for cinematography (but they breathe, they're still photography lenses...).

Edited by georg lamshöft, 18 May 2008 - 05:20 PM.

  • 0

#16 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 18 May 2008 - 05:39 PM

In the late 80s Leica realized that they cannot compete with Japanese prices and they sold their Canadian faciliity which became ELCAN (Ernst Leitz Canada), this company designed and produced many Panavision lenses (Primo?).

ELCAN only did the assembly of the Primos, while Panavision themselves are responsible for the design (both optical and mechanical). The Technical Academy Awards for these lenses all went to Panavision employees, not anyone from ELCAN.
  • 0

#17 georg lamshöft

georg lamshöft
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 310 posts
  • Berlin

Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:55 AM

http://optics.org/cw...duct/P000002510
This article seems to claim that ELCAN designed and manufactured these lenses and Panavision "just" ordered them and maybe did some final assembly work.
That's also what I've read a few times and it seemed quite logical to me because lens design and production needs specific know-how which has very little to do with traditional fine mechanics (cnc-machining...) I'm not sure if that's true but it would surprise me if Panavision "comes out of nowhere" and is able to machine/coat/assemble lenses to these high standards!?
  • 0

#18 Mitch Gross

Mitch Gross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2873 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 19 May 2008 - 02:13 PM

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

Panavision had a set of design specs; Elcan did the manufacturing to these specs. It took the know how of Panavision to come up with the design; it took the know how of Elcan to execute it.

Hey, Apple designed the iPhone and has it manufactured in the Far East. Who gets the credit for that?
  • 0

#19 georg lamshöft

georg lamshöft
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 310 posts
  • Berlin

Posted 20 May 2008 - 04:40 AM

That sounds interesting:
http://www.moneyhous...4.034.603-1.htm
Mr. Kaufmann (CEO/owner of Leica Camera) said that in "1-2 years" Leica Cinema will come up with some stuff (most likely lenses).

@Mitch Gross
Comparing iPhones with high-quality lens making...
Consumer electronics are dead quality-wise, since highly-skilled (and fair paid) craftsmanship was exchanged by low-wages slave-work (the iPhone is assembled by a Taiwanese company not even willing to pay Taiwanese wages, they go to China, probably China buys weapons with that money to attack Taiwan -probably one of these things our children will raise their eyebrowes in history class?...). I remember when a teacher of mine looked at my MacbookPro and said none of his students would have passed delivering such a lousy fitting of the metal components... ;-)

So please: highly-skilled (handmade/assembly) craftsmanship for all small production numbers and high-tech automatized manufacturing for good-quality mass products (like Swatch) but please no slaves assembling MP3-players that are sold for 5 times their monthly wage...

Damn, I just wanted to tell how great Leica-lenses are and now I'm discussing political themes way beyond my English-skills, I apologize...

Sorry, back on-topic, please :-)

Edited by georg lamshöft, 20 May 2008 - 04:43 AM.

  • 0

#20 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 20 May 2008 - 08:31 AM

http://optics.org/cw...duct/P000002510
This article seems to claim that ELCAN designed and manufactured these lenses and Panavision "just" ordered them and maybe did some final assembly work.

Yep that article seems to be a bit misleading, when I first read it, I also understood it like ELCAN did all the work. Like I said (and not to be petty!), the Academy Award that people from Panavision got, specifically gives them credit for the optical and mechanical design.
  • 0


Abel Cine

Glidecam

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

The Slider

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Opal

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Abel Cine

The Slider

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc