Jump to content


Photo

B&W developing effect


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Ale Reynoso

Ale Reynoso
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina

Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:03 PM

Hello:
I will be shooting a short film (S16 film) wich includes a B&W photography paper copy in a dark room being developed during a shot. I´m wondering if there´s a way to cheat the developing or if a real image appearing could be shot. I´m thinking in the low levels of the red security light and the time it takes an image to appear. Perhaps shooting at a low rate would help with the low light and the time, but I don´t know if the shot will be static or with the actor working in the developer tray. His movements could be weird at high speed...
Has anybody had any experience with this issue? I think I saw it in a couple of movies (I saw it in CSI a couple of days ago), but I´m still wondering the best way to go.

Thank you
Alejandro
  • 0

#2 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:48 PM

Hello:
I will be shooting a short film (S16 film) wich includes a B&W photography paper copy in a dark room being developed during a shot. I´m wondering if there´s a way to cheat the developing or if a real image appearing could be shot. I´m thinking in the low levels of the red security light and the time it takes an image to appear. Perhaps shooting at a low rate would help with the low light and the time, but I don´t know if the shot will be static or with the actor working in the developer tray. His movements could be weird at high speed...
Has anybody had any experience with this issue? I think I saw it in a couple of movies (I saw it in CSI a couple of days ago), but I´m still wondering the best way to go.

Thank you
Alejandro


Hey Alejandro, I've seen this done very well and very poorly. Promise me that: 1: You will not make it a *color* print! (Color is seldom done with a safelight, and if it is, it is dim dim dim dim dim orange with the print face down; even if the print is face up, illumination under color safelight is so dim that a person can't see the print clearly, and certainly not in full color, let alone a camera) and 2: The safelight will NOT be red. They are almost universally yellow these days, so unless your film is set before, say, the '70s make it yellow.

You might be able to achieve enough illumination with sodium vapor safelights to shoot this in real time, shooting wide open.

If that is not the case, you can dillute the developer severely and have the talent agitate the tray very slowly.

Finally, something suggested to me either here or on another forum, was to use a sepia toner kit ($10 in a store), bleach the silver out of a finished B&W print, and actually TONE it instead of developing it for a similar effect while allowing you to use any illumination you want.

Personally, as a somewhat experienced darkroomer, I don't think the toning approach is realistic enough to be convincing to those of us who actually still darkroom, but it certainly would be the easiest, as you can use film lites gelled [hopefully] yellow.
  • 0

#3 Ale Reynoso

Ale Reynoso
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina

Posted 27 May 2008 - 12:02 PM

Hello Karl.
Thank you!!!
The toning option sounds very good and easy to do. Thanks a lot! We don´t need a 100% real effect intended for dark roomers. Just that magic, romantic feel of an image appearing from nothing.
Of course the print is B&W, but the safe light will be red (sorry!), but for dramatic reasons. The script has some fantastic issues, so we (with the director) saw a powerfull effect having the dark room in a very contrasty monochromatic look in red and black, so taht´s what we´re looking for.
We´re just discussing the script, but this help us a lot.
Thanks again!!
Best regards from Buenos Aires
Alejandro
  • 0

#4 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 27 May 2008 - 12:31 PM

Of course the print is B&W, but the safe light will be red (sorry!), but for dramatic reasons. The script has some fantastic issues, so we (with the director) saw a powerfull effect having the dark room in a very contrasty monochromatic look in red and black, so taht´s what we´re looking for.
We´re just discussing the script, but this help us a lot.
Thanks again!!
Best regards from Buenos Aires
Alejandro


Hey Alejandro. It's OK, you're forgiven. I actually do use a red safelight myself still, but all of the commercial/school darkrooms I've been in are greenish-yellow. Someday someone will get it right. . . ;)

Just in case you're not experienced with sepia toner (Is it sepia? Now that I think of it, I might be thinking of the wrong type), it's a two part kit. Part A is a bleach that'll bleach the silver out. Part B is the actual toner that you want to use on-camera.
  • 0

#5 Ale Reynoso

Ale Reynoso
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina

Posted 27 May 2008 - 11:39 PM

Hello Karl.
Thanks a lot again
By the way, the dark room in Antonioni´s "Blow Up" uses green-yellow safe light.
It looked ok, but it didn´t generate the mood we´re looking for. I think the red will give us a more passionate, dramatic feel (like the darkroom in "Seven", with several red lamps hanging between B&W prints...)
Best regards
Alejandro
  • 0

#6 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 29 May 2008 - 09:43 PM

By the way, the dark room in Antonioni´s "Blow Up" uses green-yellow safe light.


No problem Alejandro. Hope my advice is of some use to you.

Re: Antonioni's "Blow Up". Haven't seen it. You've just made my day though! I'm definitely going to check it out just for that!
  • 0

#7 Ale Reynoso

Ale Reynoso
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 63 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina

Posted 14 February 2009 - 07:37 PM

Finally did the shot a couple of weeks ago.
We went for the toning kit. We did some test and the result was fantastic for us. The image of the print totally dissapeard with "solution A", and started to "fade in" from white in the bath with "solution B". And you could do it in any light you want. We checked it out with a B&W print made in a home laboratory from a friend. You should work out the dilution of the "solution B" to fine tune the time that takes the image to appear.
Saddly the shooting day we couldn´t have the print made in my fried´s laboratory. So we sent the B&W negative to a commercial laboratory...and the print didnt´t fade totally with solution A! It just faded a lot, but not at all. So the director had to hold another angle of the lab scene in the editing so you couldn´t see there was already a image in the paper. You can see in the final cut that the image is faded, but there, and slowly gets darker, but the effect is almost lost... :(
Some people said that the commercial lab could use color paper or ink printing for the B&W print. I asked the producer to have the print done photoquimically in B&W paper, but now I´m not shure what I got.
What I know is that the shot would have been perfect if the print had been the right one (the same kind we tested: B&W paper developed photoquimically.
Anyway the film looks very good overall. I used red gels for the lab and I like it very much. Have to work a little in post to fine tune the levels (I overexposed a bit worried about lack of density using only red light, and it looks very nice. I have to get down the level a little bit (I´m finishing in video) to appear as a safety light and not a disco light...haha! :lol: ).
Best regards
Alejandro
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

CineLab

Tai Audio

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

Opal

Visual Products

Technodolly

The Slider

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab