Jump to content


Photo

Which is the audio recorder for me?


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Norton

Nick Norton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Student
  • Chicago

Posted 27 May 2008 - 06:58 PM

I currently own a S8mm Canon 1014xls, but am considering to purchase a 16mm Eclair NPR.

What i do not have is anything to record audio with, and i am looking for a portable recorder that can keep a constant speed with my camera.

What is the quality difference between the two recorders, and what should i be looking for in terms of features?

Also, how do the Marantz or Tascam recorders match up, quality wise, compared to the older reel to reel NAGRA's?



Thanks-

Nicholas
  • 0

#2 Matthew W. Phillips

Matthew W. Phillips
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1792 posts
  • Other

Posted 27 May 2008 - 07:18 PM

What i do not have is anything to record audio with, and i am looking for a portable recorder that can keep a constant speed with my camera.


I'm not sure I understand this statement. I haven't heard of any modern digital recorders that don't work at constant speed. The NAGRA of old that you mentioned was the last system that I know of that required pilotone for syncing. If this isn't the case, I must mention that I NEVER had any problems syncing audio from any digital recorder. The only issue was whether the camera I was using was properly crystal synced. If they were, however, I found that the recorders worked at a constant rate (real time rate) that lined up fine with the film.
  • 0

#3 Dan Goulder

Dan Goulder
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1259 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

Also, how do the Marantz or Tascam recorders match up, quality wise, compared to the older reel to reel NAGRA's?

I don't know how these two recorders stack up in terms of audio specs, but the Tascam may be designed more for double-system production audio (separate media for film and audio), as it has SMPTE, and audio pull-up for maintaining sync with telecined film. I believe it also has a new file per take feature. These are all helpful for recording location film sound. I'm not sure if the Marantz offers the same features, but that would be worth investigating before you make a purchase.
  • 0

#4 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 28 May 2008 - 08:19 AM

Nagra's sync was a modular system, actually. My Nagra is crystal sync'd, for instance. I love it, the warm tones it gives especially.
  • 0

#5 Nick Norton

Nick Norton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Student
  • Chicago

Posted 28 May 2008 - 09:04 PM

Nagra's sync was a modular system, actually. My Nagra is crystal sync'd, for instance. I love it, the warm tones it gives especially.



How hard is it to get a NAGRA crystal sync'd?

And also, if you we're shooting with say an Eclair NPR or Arriflex 16mm would you have to run a cable to the recorder from the camera? Or would your camera simply need to be crystal sync'd as well?


Thanks!-

Nicholas
  • 0

#6 Matthew W. Phillips

Matthew W. Phillips
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1792 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 May 2008 - 10:35 PM

And also, if you we're shooting with say an Eclair NPR or Arriflex 16mm would you have to run a cable to the recorder from the camera? Or would your camera simply need to be crystal sync'd as well?


The answer to this depends on what you are going to finish on. First off, with crystal sync, your camera is ALWAYS seperate than your recorder. That was sort of the point of crystal sync to begin with...device independence (not to mention awesome accuracy). You could have 10 different cameras, all crystal synced at the same frequency, and your similarly synced NAGRA or stereo recorder would be synced with all the footage from all the cameras. Then your lab could resolve the pilotone signal from your magnetic tape (or film) and use it for your optical sound track if you hoped to finish on film.

This sortof isnt necessary if you're going to edit on your computer. You merely crystal sync your camera to your desired frame rate, use a digital field recorder to acquire your dialog (modern digital recorders are real time), have your film transfered, upload your digital audio, and sync it in your editing suite. The only consideration is if you telecine your film to NTSC since the frame rate is 59.94i. Therefore, your audio needs to be condensed slightly to match this or your track will drift after a few minutes.

I hope this helps.
  • 0

#7 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Zürich, Switzerland

Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:12 AM

Also, how do the Marantz or Tascam recorders match up, quality wise, compared to the older reel to reel NAGRA's?


A NAGRA might have a bit more noise but you can push it a little harder to get the benefits of tapesaturation. It sounds like Tape and gives you that 70ies begin of 80ies movie-sound. Before the NAGRA IV-S or the 4.2 they were mono and not always crystal. I recently did a job on a IV-L (it's mono) and was longing for that extra track on a stereo-device. If you run it at full speed (best quality) you get 7min per reel, you have to change more often than the camera department. They are heavy, have to be maintained properly and you have to transfer the sound to a computer afterwards. You need some discipline to manage and organize your tapes. Power consumption is rather low, I did a 3day gig with one battery-load. If you have a NPR with pilottone out you can sync it with the nagra without the need for a crystal-device.

I used the Tascam HD-P2 recently. Soundquality and Noisefloor are very ok for its price. The 2in1 volume-pot is not very handy. The menu - user interface is not very ergonomic. Power consumption could be better, with internal batteries you have to change once ore twice a day...

Never worked with Marantz but they have a good reputation in the lower budget range.
  • 0

#8 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:18 AM

Nagra's sync was a modular system, actually. My Nagra is crystal sync'd, for instance. I love it, the warm tones it gives especially.



Which Nagra do you have? I'm looking at buying a Nagra IV with STC. Any problems getting parts? service?
  • 0

#9 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Zürich, Switzerland

Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:50 AM

Any problems getting parts? service?


since they still build the 4.2, they might provide parts and service for older devices...

http://www.nagraaudio.com/
  • 0

#10 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:57 AM

since they still build the 4.2, they might provide parts and service for older devices...

http://www.nagraaudio.com/



usually you end up having to search ebay or buy older ones that don't work. very few parts are cross-compatible with the time code.

Edited by Glen Alexander, 03 June 2008 - 06:57 AM.

  • 0

#11 Glen Alexander

Glen Alexander
  • Guests

Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:29 AM

if you look at their evaluation of red camera,

http://www.sounddevi...ameras/red-one/

this is why you get a good recorder with preamps, the cameras are not sufficient
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Opal

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

CineLab

Glidecam

Opal

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

Abel Cine

CineLab

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport