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#1 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:31 PM

what side of the film is light supposed to be hitting? :lol: most of you will probably crack up over that one, soo noob, first time loading this K3 with a practice day light spool.

theres a dark shiny brown side, my guess would be that side. and the other side has a rough yellowish surface.

i think this spool is backwards for some reason

the whole spool is with the shiny side up.

should the rough yellow side be facing up on the spool when its brand new? or the brown side?
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#2 Mike Lary

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:35 PM

How old is your film? It shouldn't be yellow.

The base is shiny and the emulsion side is not. If you can't tell the difference visually, tear a piece off the film and stick it between your lips. The emulsion side will stick to your lip. The base will not. The emulsion side faces the light.
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#3 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:09 PM

http://img84.imagesh.../dsc0005ci9.jpg

theres a picture of the film and the way its gotta go through the K3 lol....

originally the film was hitting light on the yellow side when it went through, now its backwords and hitting light on the brown side... o.0!!

i suspect that would be the case after its gone through once, but i have no idea whats going on here, maybe the film was B wind or something originally, what side is the emulsion side on that film?
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#4 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:12 PM

Or what I should have asked was what side of that Film should be getting light? the yellow or brown?

edit: the spool Should go with the arrows, but the way the film is on the spool it has to go the other wya, (i cant really see that making a difference, the end result is the same is it not?)

Edited by Curtis Bouvier, 03 June 2008 - 02:15 PM.

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#5 Herb Montes

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:36 PM

Or what I should have asked was what side of that Film should be getting light? the yellow or brown?

edit: the spool Should go with the arrows, but the way the film is on the spool it has to go the other wya, (i cant really see that making a difference, the end result is the same is it not?)


The shiny dark brown side is the base, that side is away from the lens. The light yellow rough side is the emulsion, that faces the lens. The picture shows it backwards. Also the film should come off the back side of the roll, the side furthest away from the gate.
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#6 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:54 PM

The shiny dark brown side is the base, that side is away from the lens. The light yellow rough side is the emulsion, that faces the lens. The picture shows it backwards. Also the film should come off the back side of the roll, the side furthest away from the gate.


it did originally, now that i ran it through once with no problems

i'm trying to run it through again, but for soem reason the bottom side of the feed doesnt want to grab onto the film, the top picks up the film fine, its in sync with the pull down claw, but the bottom seems to be skipping the film or something, real wierd, i'll keep at it!
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#7 Herb Montes

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:02 PM

it did originally, now that i ran it through once with no problems

i'm trying to run it through again, but for soem reason the bottom side of the feed doesnt want to grab onto the film, the top picks up the film fine, its in sync with the pull down claw, but the bottom seems to be skipping the film or something, real wierd, i'll keep at it!


If you're talking about the autoload mechanism that has never worked right with the K3. Most owners remove it and thread the loops manually. Also it seems the rollers along the bottom side of the sprocket may not be holding the film up against it and the film jumps the sprocket holes. Is this the first time you loaded this camera? Have you put film through it before?
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#8 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:15 PM

If you're talking about the autoload mechanism that has never worked right with the K3. Most owners remove it and thread the loops manually. Also it seems the rollers along the bottom side of the sprocket may not be holding the film up against it and the film jumps the sprocket holes. Is this the first time you loaded this camera? Have you put film through it before?



First time ever using this camera and 16mm film. I figured out whats going on with the bottom rollers, something on the end is catching the film and stopping it from proceeding, so i stuck some tweezers in there to pull on it and help it along, it seems the top corner and bottom corner of the film are catching on some pointy piece of plastic, i just have to stop that from happening when the film comes through that area.

other than that everything seems great, the loops are holding out well, the pull down claw is perfectly in sync with the rollers.

i'm curious to know how much speed consistancy is lost towards the last 5-10 seconds of shooting, you get about 25 seconds or so and it sounds fast off the start, but towards the end you can hear the camera slowly slowing down. I guess i could check this by filming a stop watch style counter, alot like you see on clapper boards. see if 24 frames matches up with about 1 second of clock time, i bet the last 5-10 seconds are more like 22-23 fps? any one have any more info on that?
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#9 Herb Montes

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:20 PM

First time ever using this camera and 16mm film. I figured out whats going on with the bottom rollers, something on the end is catching the film and stopping it from proceeding, so i stuck some tweezers in there to pull on it and help it along, it seems the top corner and bottom corner of the film are catching on some pointy piece of plastic, i just have to stop that from happening when the film comes through that area.

other than that everything seems great, the loops are holding out well, the pull down claw is perfectly in sync with the rollers.

i'm curious to know how much speed consistancy is lost towards the last 5-10 seconds of shooting, you get about 25 seconds or so and it sounds fast off the start, but towards the end you can hear the camera slowly slowing down. I guess i could check this by filming a stop watch style counter, alot like you see on clapper boards. see if 24 frames matches up with about 1 second of clock time, i bet the last 5-10 seconds are more like 22-23 fps? any one have any more info on that?


Removing the autothread mechanism and threading the film manually should eliminate that.

As for the camera slowing down it's common with most clockwork cameras. They do slow down when reaching the end of a wind. A few cameras maintain their speed throughout the whole wind like the later Bolexes and the Kodak K100. The K100 has the longest wind of any clockwork 16mm out there.
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#10 Kristian Schumacher

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:23 PM

Hi Curtis,

No wonder it is a bit confusing for you. It looks as if your film roll is turned tail first.... As Herb says, the shiny dark side faces the inside of the camera, the matte yellow-brown faces the lens. My guess is that your film is not straight out of the packet, but reloaded from another reel onto daylight spools....? It looks to be turned backwards so to speak. If you reload film, you need to do it twice - otherwise the perfs on single-perf film ends up on the wrong side.

OK, took a photo...... 1000 words and so on. This is what it should look like ;-)

http://kameraunderva...s/K3loading.jpg

Best of luck,

Kristian
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#11 Curtis Bouvier

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 10:18 PM

ahhhh very nice kristian! thank you
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#12 Sean McHenry

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:35 PM

As he noted, he ran the film through once and is attempting to run it again. The first time would have been right but now the film would be tails out. It is on the take up spool. You would need to manually rewind it back the other way to run it through again I believe. You don't take it back and forth from one spool to the next over and over. The only time you do that is when using double run 8mm like in a Bolex H8 or other dr8 cameras. You run the 16mm film through once to the take up spool, remove the spools and flip them and run them again. You can't just flip the reels in a 16mm camera, the sprocket holes in single perf films would be on the wrong side - I think.

Also, since this is the first time running 16mm, are you sure the thing the film is catching on isn't the claw that feeds the film? The claw is somewhat triangular and grabs the holes in the film and pulls it down one frame at a time.

Just want to make sure we are all hearing this right so we can help you correctly.

S.
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#13 Ira Ratner

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:06 PM

Can I join the party?

Hey Curtis--just got my K3 recently, and I'm almost as stupid as you when it comes to this, but I'm sure I'm a lot stupider in other ways. I actually know which is the emulsion side, but instead of practicing loading the camera with real film, I bought 400 feet of leader.

So to those NOT as stupid as me and Curtis:

The leader I got on the reel is tail out. I know that because when I put the reel on my projector, it's wrong (doesn't go on the spindle correctly). So my two questions are:

1) For the K-3, which accepts both single and double perf (but I'll of course be using single), can I assume that the perf side goes om top--aimed closer to you and not aimed toward the center of the camera? Remember--I don't have real film in front of and just working with blue leader, so don' laugh.


2) I also bought this leader because I can't figure out how the hell to load my projector, and I didn't want to ruin the vintage 16mm movies/shorts I've been buying to learn. So again, when I spool this leader onto the reel, do I do it so that the perf is closer to me when facing the projector sideways?

Thank you for your time, and remember that I really might be Steven Spielberg who''s just testing you for a lucrative opportunity with me on my next film, so give your answers your all.
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#14 Ian Cooper

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 03:24 AM

The perfs of the film go towards the centre of the camera. (ie. furthest away from the person loading)

This can be confirmed by looking at the feed sprockets - they only have teeth to engage the perfs at their base. When you remove the pressure plate you can also see the pull-down claw, this needs to engage the film perfs as well.
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#15 Ira Ratner

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 06:41 PM

The perfs of the film go towards the centre of the camera. (ie. furthest away from the person loading)

This can be confirmed by looking at the feed sprockets - they only have teeth to engage the perfs at their base. When you remove the pressure plate you can also see the pull-down claw, this needs to engage the film perfs as well.


Thanks Ian. We have lift-off!!!
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